From clive.wickens at btopenworld.com  Tue Oct  6 22:23:12 2009
From: clive.wickens at btopenworld.com (CLIVE WICKENS)
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 23:23:12 +0100
Subject: [Runequest] Tradetalk site down ?
Message-ID: <8C44EC8334D24463B050ABCDE7D985B6@sickboy>

Tried ordering some stuff over at the Tradetalk site but was unable to get the page to load. tried dropping them a mail but got mail returned address not recognised.

Does anybody know any of the tradetalk guys and could ask if there still going ?

Cheers,

Clive
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From lev at rpgreview.net  Wed Oct  7 10:21:54 2009
From: lev at rpgreview.net (Lev Lafayette)
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 21:21:54 +1100
Subject: [Runequest] Tradetalk site down ?
In-Reply-To: <8C44EC8334D24463B050ABCDE7D985B6@sickboy>
References: <8C44EC8334D24463B050ABCDE7D985B6@sickboy>
Message-ID: <1254910914.9410.7.camel@squirrel>

On Tue, 2009-10-06 at 23:23 +0100, CLIVE WICKENS wrote:
> Tried ordering some stuff over at the Tradetalk site but was unable to
> get the page to load. tried dropping them a mail but got mail returned
> address not recognised.

Seems OK now. Must have been a temporary problem.

All the best,


Lev




From summers.noah at gmail.com  Thu Oct  8 12:48:49 2009
From: summers.noah at gmail.com (Noah Summers)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 08:48:49 -0400
Subject: [Runequest] Pages Missing From Advanced RuneQuest
Message-ID: <ed212e230910080548u2df36928sa4c5d16edf84d420@mail.gmail.com>

I've just bought all three of Games Workshop's core rulebooks for RuneQuest
3rd Edition, and despite being in never-used condition, there are two pages
missing among the reference sheets in the back: 149/150 and 151/152

Could anyone tell me what I'm missing, or better yet, direct me to a scan?

Thanks,

Noah
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From andyl at azaal.plus.com  Thu Oct  8 13:03:24 2009
From: andyl at azaal.plus.com (Andy Leighton)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 14:03:24 +0100
Subject: [Runequest] Pages Missing From Advanced RuneQuest
In-Reply-To: <ed212e230910080548u2df36928sa4c5d16edf84d420@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ed212e230910080548u2df36928sa4c5d16edf84d420@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20091008130324.GA8200@azaal.plus.com>

On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 08:48:49AM -0400, Noah Summers wrote:
> I've just bought all three of Games Workshop's core rulebooks for RuneQuest
> 3rd Edition, and despite being in never-used condition, there are two pages
> missing among the reference sheets in the back: 149/150 and 151/152
> 
> Could anyone tell me what I'm missing, or better yet, direct me to a scan?

I presume you are talking about the Advanced RuneQuest book (the basic
Runequest book didn't have that many pages).

149/150 is a character sheet.

151/152 had a brief description of the melee sequence and the following 
tables -
Resistance Table
Humanoid Hit Locations
Shielded Hit Locations
4-Legged Animal Hit Locations
Attack Modifiers
Skill Results (basically the crit, special and fumble numbers for
skill levels)
Combined Melee Weapons and Parry Weapons Fumbles
Missile Weapons Fumbles
Dropped Oil Lamp Table

-- 
Andy Leighton => andyl at azaal.plus.com
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials" 
   - Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_



From summers.noah at gmail.com  Fri Oct  9 01:05:39 2009
From: summers.noah at gmail.com (Noah Summers)
Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 21:05:39 -0400
Subject: [Runequest] Runequest Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1255050010.27033.runequest_rpgreview.net@rpgreview.net>
References: <mailman.1.1255050010.27033.runequest_rpgreview.net@rpgreview.net>
Message-ID: <ed212e230910081805l4c78d0c7o5c7efd6e952d924f@mail.gmail.com>

Whoops!  I forgot to specify, but yes, I was referring to the Advanced
RuneQuest book.  Thanks for the response!

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:00 PM, <runequest-request at rpgreview.net> wrote:

> Send Runequest mailing list submissions to
>        runequest at rpgreview.net
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Pages Missing From Advanced RuneQuest (Noah Summers)
>   2. Re: Pages Missing From Advanced RuneQuest (Andy Leighton)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 08:48:49 -0400
> From: Noah Summers <summers.noah at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Runequest] Pages Missing From Advanced RuneQuest
> To: runequest at rpgreview.net
> Message-ID:
>        <ed212e230910080548u2df36928sa4c5d16edf84d420 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I've just bought all three of Games Workshop's core rulebooks for RuneQuest
> 3rd Edition, and despite being in never-used condition, there are two pages
> missing among the reference sheets in the back: 149/150 and 151/152
>
> Could anyone tell me what I'm missing, or better yet, direct me to a scan?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Noah
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 14:03:24 +0100
> From: Andy Leighton <andyl at azaal.plus.com>
> Subject: Re: [Runequest] Pages Missing From Advanced RuneQuest
> To: RuneQuest Rules <runequest at rpgreview.net>
> Message-ID: <20091008130324.GA8200 at azaal.plus.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 08:48:49AM -0400, Noah Summers wrote:
> > I've just bought all three of Games Workshop's core rulebooks for
> RuneQuest
> > 3rd Edition, and despite being in never-used condition, there are two
> pages
> > missing among the reference sheets in the back: 149/150 and 151/152
> >
> > Could anyone tell me what I'm missing, or better yet, direct me to a
> scan?
>
> I presume you are talking about the Advanced RuneQuest book (the basic
> Runequest book didn't have that many pages).
>
> 149/150 is a character sheet.
>
> 151/152 had a brief description of the melee sequence and the following
> tables -
> Resistance Table
> Humanoid Hit Locations
> Shielded Hit Locations
> 4-Legged Animal Hit Locations
> Attack Modifiers
> Skill Results (basically the crit, special and fumble numbers for
> skill levels)
> Combined Melee Weapons and Parry Weapons Fumbles
> Missile Weapons Fumbles
> Dropped Oil Lamp Table
>
> --
> Andy Leighton => andyl at azaal.plus.com
> "The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
>   - Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Runequest mailing list
> Runequest at rpgreview.net
> http://rpgreview.net/mailman/listinfo/runequest_rpgreview.net
>
>
> End of Runequest Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3
> ****************************************
>
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From lev at rpgreview.net  Mon Oct 19 09:31:56 2009
From: lev at rpgreview.net (Lev Lafayette)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 20:31:56 +1100
Subject: [Runequest] Divine Intervention in RuneQuest
Message-ID: <1255944716.2293.1.camel@squirrel>

Issue

There has been a fair bit of Divine Intervention going on in my campaign
of late, mainly out of justified desperation as the difficulty level
arcs up. But due the rather random nature of DI, the PCs have suffered a
great deal with three PCs losing over 18 points of POW each. You can
imagine what it is like with three of the PCs now wandering around with
almost no chance of casting a Heal I, let alone resisting a Disruption.
It lead me to do some investigations on the various editions of the game
and some thoughts on which is perhaps better that the rather extreme
randomness that currently exists.

Summary of Various Divine Intervention Procedures

RuneQuest I & II & III

In RuneQuest I a Rune Priest could call for Divine Intervention with a
10% chance per point of permanent POW previous expended and allocated to
the spell at the time of casting. Rune Lords call for Divine
Intervention by rolling a table instead, losing between 0 and 10 points
of POW. It can be used to raise one adventurer from the dead, or
teleport a dozen out of trouble. Divine Intervention can only be used to
help the caster, not directly harm anyone else as that would put the
Gods in direct conflict of what is a proxy war using humans etc. In
RuneQuest II the mechanics are largely the same. The main difference, at
least from what I can see, is an Initiate could also attempt Divine
Intervention once a week by rolling under their POW on d100, losing that
many POW points if successful. It is also clarified that Intervention
cannot be used to substitute training and experience and that it can be
used to enchant iron or Rune metals. Bound by time, it cannot be used to
fortell the future or change the past.

In RuneQuest III it is specified that Intervention is restricted to the
God's normal abilities (and bound by Time), an Initiate or Priest may
roll D100 and attempt roll below their POW. If they succeed the
Intervention occurs and they lose a number of POW points equal to their
dice roll. It cannot be used against worshippers of the same God.
Characteristics can be raised by 1 point, within species and other
limits. Gods are unable to help non-worshippers, cannot create new
spells etc, as per previous editions.

RuneQuest: AiG

In RuneQuest Adventures in Glorantha, an initiate, acolyte, priest or
lord could call for Divine Intervention. The situation has to be
desperate. If a roll equal of less than the character's POW is
successful, then the Intervention occurs with the character losing a
number of points of POW equal to the roll. A Rune lord rolls 1d10
instead. There are no multiple calls; either the God responds the first
time or not at all. Divine effects will concur with the powers of the
God. As a rule of thumb, an initiate or acolyte gains access to a number
of points of divine magic equal to twice the POW expended in the call
for divine intervention, or twice the number of points of divine magic
he or she knows, whichever is greater. A priest or Rune Lord gains
access to a number of points of divine magic equal to thrice the POW
expended or thrice the number of points of divine magic he or she knows,
whichever is greater. Worshippers can choose to stack such spells to
affect any initiates (or higher ranking worshippers) of the god within
range with a single casting. For example, a Humakti could use 5 points
of divine intervention granted divine magic to cast a Truesword not only
upon her sword, but also on the swords of the four other Humakti
initiates in her party, all as a single spell. Further if the worshipper
is unconscious or dead when he or she calls for divine intervention, he
or she can continue to cast spells granted by divine intervention until
the points run out. They cannot cast any other spells while unconscious
or dead. A dead worshipper may attempt to resurrect themselves (through
the use of the Resurrection spell) after they have healed the wounds
that caused their death (through the use of Heal, Heal Wound or Heal
Body spells). Due to the Great Compromise, gods will not directly attack
mortals. Divine intervention cannot be used against worshippers of the
same god, for a god will not act against himself or herself. Gods are
unlikely to help non-worshippers. Divine intervention cannot transport
an individual into an enemy stronghold or temple where the enemy's power
is greatest, but it could be used to escape from such a site.

Mongoose RQ

In Mongoose RuneQuest Divine Intervention may be called by Acolytes,
Runepriests and Runelords once per month. Roll D100 and attempt to roll
below POW; if successful the miracle occurs, but that amount of POW is
lost. Some same powers of a Divine Intervention includes with the
casting of any cult spell of any magnitude., allowing a cult spell to
affect all worshippers within line of sight., bringing a character back
from the dead. Divine Intervention cannot be used to directly harm or
slay mortal creatures. It can allow any cult spell to be cast with no
limit on magic points or magnitude, it can affect any worshipper within
the caster's line of sight, and allow for various 'divine
effects' (e.g., temporary double STR, change weather etc).


An Alternative

I don't like the randomness; your RuneQuest may vary. Rather, I would
prefer that the character sacrifices an amount of POW in advance for the
Divine Intervention. This may be done by an Initiate or Priest. If a
character loses either status, the POW dedicated remains dedicated. This
dedicated POW does not count towards applications for Priesthood or
anything like that.

e.g., Red Mouse is an initiate of Zola Fel and sacrifices 5 points of
POW to Divine Intervention. These five points cannot count towards the
ten necessary to become a Rune Priest. His own bearing and confidence in
himself is sublimated towards that of the mighty river whose valleys and
brooks his travels around. To him The River is life itself. Over the
course of the seasons however he rescues a young shaman, Penliss, from a
rather dangerous situation. She recognises his great spirit and teaches
him the ways of the spirit world. He becomes a shaman himself, but does
not lose the ability to call upon Zola Fel for assistance. The Gods
remembers their debts.

When the Divine Intervention is called, the God will intervene
automatically. The degree of intervention is dependent on the amount of
POW allocated at the time of intervention. The God, rather than the
character, will decide in what way they will intervene - after all, no
character can tell a God, or their God, what to do. The God will usually
be intervene the form of casting Rune spells but other effects can be
simulated at an equivalent cost as appropriate to the standard
restrictions of the game world (e.g., in Glorantha no mind-reading,
altering of time etc) and their domain of activity. Typically an
initiate, or even former initiate, will receive twice the POW dedicated
and a Rune Priest or Rune Lord three times the amount. As usual, the
general rule of thumb of a Spirit Magic spell being the equivalent of
half a Divine Magic applies. Stacking limits etc, do not apply to Gods.

e.g., Facing the Watchdog of Corflu and a not insubstantial number of
Lunars led by the Coders, Red Mouse watches his friend Honest John fall
to the ground due to a well-thrown spear; he immediately calls for Zola
Fel's assistance and allocates 3 of his 5 Divine Intervention points;
his former initiate status of the cult means that the God will dedicate
6 points of Rune magic power to his aid. Zola Fel hears the call but can
do nothing to prevents Honest John's spirit from leaving the mundane
plane, as he does not have access to this magic. However, seeing the
degree of danger he does Summon a an extremely large large Undine (4
point) which is placed under Red Mouse's control, grants Red Mouse and
his ally Praxiletes the Spirit Magic spell River Eyes to aid any escape
they require (1 point) and provides a Fireshield (1 points).

The alternative system significantly reduces the amount of power and
control that PCs have in terms of access to Divine Intervention, however
I feel it is closer to the intention (the Gods are limited to the
abilities that they can grant to their worshippers, just not in scale).
At the same time however it significantly increases the certainty of
access to DI. Finally, it has the additional bonus of treating the
Divine forces as actually Intervening by letting the GM roleplay their
actions.




From snarks at gmail.com  Mon Oct 19 11:04:25 2009
From: snarks at gmail.com (Phil Hibbs)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:04:25 +0100
Subject: [Runequest] Divine Intervention in RuneQuest
In-Reply-To: <1255944716.2293.1.camel@squirrel>
References: <1255944716.2293.1.camel@squirrel>
Message-ID: <8f63b7250910190404v585aa834pe3ce0ba3989737f9@mail.gmail.com>

Lev:
> e.g., Facing the Watchdog of Corflu and a not insubstantial number of
> Lunars led by the Coders, Red Mouse watches his friend Honest John fall
> to the ground due to a well-thrown spear; he immediately calls for Zola
> Fel's assistance and allocates 3 of his 5 Divine Intervention points;

Your system gives the player more control over the DI process than
traditional systems - sure, they don't get to choose exactly what
happens, but there is the guarantee of knowing that it *will* work. I
would temper that by saying that they don't get to choose how many
points get used, it's all or nothing. Personally I like the existing
random system - DI should be something unusual and special when it
works.

Phil Hibbs.
-- 
Don't you just hate self-referential sigs?



From mason.bruce at gmail.com  Mon Oct 19 11:12:37 2009
From: mason.bruce at gmail.com (Bruce Mason)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:12:37 +0100
Subject: [Runequest] Divine Intervention in RuneQuest
In-Reply-To: <1255944716.2293.1.camel@squirrel>
References: <1255944716.2293.1.camel@squirrel>
Message-ID: <5f3990080910190412q2b68b67cvb3c81303aff6f1b8@mail.gmail.com>

MRQ is changing. Now Divine Intervention is a Pact% skill roll. If you roll
your Pact% or less then you lose that percentage in Pact permanently and
must retrain. Rune Lords roll d10 to see how much Pact they lose. Given that
a Priest needs 80%+ in Pact% to qualify, then it's pretty much a done deal
for a priest and, for all intents and purposes, automatic for Rune Lords. To
me, making DI a close to sure thing implies that its effects need to be a
lot more constrained.

Personally I'm not sure that the flash, bang wallop nature of RQ divine
intervention fits my view of RQ or Glorantha any longer. This is
particularly true of DI bringing back from the dead. Then again, I've
something of a swords and sorcery approach to RQ and don't like easy
healing. Finally I'm running Blood of Orlanth which falls apart if a major
character can DI to avoid dying.

All in all then, I like the thrust of your idea. In MRQ I would assign the
strength of the intervention to the cult rank of the person calling for it.
E.g. an initiate might get the equivalent of 2 points of Divine Magic,
acolyte 4, priest 8 and rune lord 12.

2009/10/19 Lev Lafayette <lev at rpgreview.net>

> Issue
>
> There has been a fair bit of Divine Intervention going on in my campaign
> of late, mainly out of justified desperation as the difficulty level
> arcs up. But due the rather random nature of DI, the PCs have suffered a
> great deal with three PCs losing over 18 points of POW each. You can
> imagine what it is like with three of the PCs now wandering around with
> almost no chance of casting a Heal I, let alone resisting a Disruption.
> It lead me to do some investigations on the various editions of the game
> and some thoughts on which is perhaps better that the rather extreme
> randomness that currently exists.
>
> Summary of Various Divine Intervention Procedures
>
> RuneQuest I & II & III
>
> In RuneQuest I a Rune Priest could call for Divine Intervention with a
> 10% chance per point of permanent POW previous expended and allocated to
> the spell at the time of casting. Rune Lords call for Divine
> Intervention by rolling a table instead, losing between 0 and 10 points
> of POW. It can be used to raise one adventurer from the dead, or
> teleport a dozen out of trouble. Divine Intervention can only be used to
> help the caster, not directly harm anyone else as that would put the
> Gods in direct conflict of what is a proxy war using humans etc. In
> RuneQuest II the mechanics are largely the same. The main difference, at
> least from what I can see, is an Initiate could also attempt Divine
> Intervention once a week by rolling under their POW on d100, losing that
> many POW points if successful. It is also clarified that Intervention
> cannot be used to substitute training and experience and that it can be
> used to enchant iron or Rune metals. Bound by time, it cannot be used to
> fortell the future or change the past.
>
> In RuneQuest III it is specified that Intervention is restricted to the
> God's normal abilities (and bound by Time), an Initiate or Priest may
> roll D100 and attempt roll below their POW. If they succeed the
> Intervention occurs and they lose a number of POW points equal to their
> dice roll. It cannot be used against worshippers of the same God.
> Characteristics can be raised by 1 point, within species and other
> limits. Gods are unable to help non-worshippers, cannot create new
> spells etc, as per previous editions.
>
> RuneQuest: AiG
>
> In RuneQuest Adventures in Glorantha, an initiate, acolyte, priest or
> lord could call for Divine Intervention. The situation has to be
> desperate. If a roll equal of less than the character's POW is
> successful, then the Intervention occurs with the character losing a
> number of points of POW equal to the roll. A Rune lord rolls 1d10
> instead. There are no multiple calls; either the God responds the first
> time or not at all. Divine effects will concur with the powers of the
> God. As a rule of thumb, an initiate or acolyte gains access to a number
> of points of divine magic equal to twice the POW expended in the call
> for divine intervention, or twice the number of points of divine magic
> he or she knows, whichever is greater. A priest or Rune Lord gains
> access to a number of points of divine magic equal to thrice the POW
> expended or thrice the number of points of divine magic he or she knows,
> whichever is greater. Worshippers can choose to stack such spells to
> affect any initiates (or higher ranking worshippers) of the god within
> range with a single casting. For example, a Humakti could use 5 points
> of divine intervention granted divine magic to cast a Truesword not only
> upon her sword, but also on the swords of the four other Humakti
> initiates in her party, all as a single spell. Further if the worshipper
> is unconscious or dead when he or she calls for divine intervention, he
> or she can continue to cast spells granted by divine intervention until
> the points run out. They cannot cast any other spells while unconscious
> or dead. A dead worshipper may attempt to resurrect themselves (through
> the use of the Resurrection spell) after they have healed the wounds
> that caused their death (through the use of Heal, Heal Wound or Heal
> Body spells). Due to the Great Compromise, gods will not directly attack
> mortals. Divine intervention cannot be used against worshippers of the
> same god, for a god will not act against himself or herself. Gods are
> unlikely to help non-worshippers. Divine intervention cannot transport
> an individual into an enemy stronghold or temple where the enemy's power
> is greatest, but it could be used to escape from such a site.
>
> Mongoose RQ
>
> In Mongoose RuneQuest Divine Intervention may be called by Acolytes,
> Runepriests and Runelords once per month. Roll D100 and attempt to roll
> below POW; if successful the miracle occurs, but that amount of POW is
> lost. Some same powers of a Divine Intervention includes with the
> casting of any cult spell of any magnitude., allowing a cult spell to
> affect all worshippers within line of sight., bringing a character back
> from the dead. Divine Intervention cannot be used to directly harm or
> slay mortal creatures. It can allow any cult spell to be cast with no
> limit on magic points or magnitude, it can affect any worshipper within
> the caster's line of sight, and allow for various 'divine
> effects' (e.g., temporary double STR, change weather etc).
>
>
> An Alternative
>
> I don't like the randomness; your RuneQuest may vary. Rather, I would
> prefer that the character sacrifices an amount of POW in advance for the
> Divine Intervention. This may be done by an Initiate or Priest. If a
> character loses either status, the POW dedicated remains dedicated. This
> dedicated POW does not count towards applications for Priesthood or
> anything like that.
>
> e.g., Red Mouse is an initiate of Zola Fel and sacrifices 5 points of
> POW to Divine Intervention. These five points cannot count towards the
> ten necessary to become a Rune Priest. His own bearing and confidence in
> himself is sublimated towards that of the mighty river whose valleys and
> brooks his travels around. To him The River is life itself. Over the
> course of the seasons however he rescues a young shaman, Penliss, from a
> rather dangerous situation. She recognises his great spirit and teaches
> him the ways of the spirit world. He becomes a shaman himself, but does
> not lose the ability to call upon Zola Fel for assistance. The Gods
> remembers their debts.
>
> When the Divine Intervention is called, the God will intervene
> automatically. The degree of intervention is dependent on the amount of
> POW allocated at the time of intervention. The God, rather than the
> character, will decide in what way they will intervene - after all, no
> character can tell a God, or their God, what to do. The God will usually
> be intervene the form of casting Rune spells but other effects can be
> simulated at an equivalent cost as appropriate to the standard
> restrictions of the game world (e.g., in Glorantha no mind-reading,
> altering of time etc) and their domain of activity. Typically an
> initiate, or even former initiate, will receive twice the POW dedicated
> and a Rune Priest or Rune Lord three times the amount. As usual, the
> general rule of thumb of a Spirit Magic spell being the equivalent of
> half a Divine Magic applies. Stacking limits etc, do not apply to Gods.
>
> e.g., Facing the Watchdog of Corflu and a not insubstantial number of
> Lunars led by the Coders, Red Mouse watches his friend Honest John fall
> to the ground due to a well-thrown spear; he immediately calls for Zola
> Fel's assistance and allocates 3 of his 5 Divine Intervention points;
> his former initiate status of the cult means that the God will dedicate
> 6 points of Rune magic power to his aid. Zola Fel hears the call but can
> do nothing to prevents Honest John's spirit from leaving the mundane
> plane, as he does not have access to this magic. However, seeing the
> degree of danger he does Summon a an extremely large large Undine (4
> point) which is placed under Red Mouse's control, grants Red Mouse and
> his ally Praxiletes the Spirit Magic spell River Eyes to aid any escape
> they require (1 point) and provides a Fireshield (1 points).
>
> The alternative system significantly reduces the amount of power and
> control that PCs have in terms of access to Divine Intervention, however
> I feel it is closer to the intention (the Gods are limited to the
> abilities that they can grant to their worshippers, just not in scale).
> At the same time however it significantly increases the certainty of
> access to DI. Finally, it has the additional bonus of treating the
> Divine forces as actually Intervening by letting the GM roleplay their
> actions.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Runequest mailing list
> Runequest at rpgreview.net
> http://rpgreview.net/mailman/listinfo/runequest_rpgreview.net
>
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From styopa1 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 19 16:02:45 2009
From: styopa1 at gmail.com (Styopa)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 11:02:45 -0500
Subject: [Runequest] Divine Intervention in RuneQuest
In-Reply-To: <1255944716.2293.1.camel@squirrel>
References: <1255944716.2293.1.camel@squirrel>
Message-ID: <56e64e7a0910190902m79c38458pc6760215ba9d7c98@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 4:31 AM, Lev Lafayette <lev at rpgreview.net> wrote:

> Issue
>
> There has been a fair bit of Divine Intervention going on in my campaign
> of late, mainly out of justified desperation as the difficulty level
> arcs up. But due the rather random nature of DI, the PCs have suffered a
> great deal with three PCs losing over 18 points of POW each. You can
> imagine what it is like with three of the PCs now wandering around with
> almost no chance of casting a Heal I, let alone resisting a Disruption.
> It lead me to do some investigations on the various editions of the game
> and some thoughts on which is perhaps better that the rather extreme
> randomness that currently exists.
>

Then again, if you're following canonical POW gain roll rules, your given
enfeebled adventurers could sit in a local tavern, using disrupt or whatever
1 point spell they have against stray animals, rodents, and frogs (assume
POW 1d6), and relatively quickly train up their POW.
Spreadsheeting this a while ago, a POW 2 character could get his POW up to
10 in anything from about 2 weeks to 2 months (lots of variables there).
(Faster, if you allow more than 1 POW gain roll per day.)

Unfortunately, the RQ3 mechanics work out that with 3 weeks of downtime (not
ALL that uncommon), characters could argue that they get what is to me TOO
MUCH POW.
Starting POW:extra POW after 21 days
POW 6 = 9-10 points
POW 9 =  5-8 points
POW 12 = 3-7 points
POW 15 = 3-6 points

To me, essentially letting the characters get even a half-dozen POW worth of
divine magic every 3 weeks is crazy overpowered.  A clever character,
reasonably secure in his personal safety, with a POW of 16, could burn 10
points, knowing in 3 weeks he'd probably have them all back.

So yes, this is tangential to your DI questions, but I think not irrelevant.
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From snarks at gmail.com  Mon Oct 19 16:09:26 2009
From: snarks at gmail.com (Phil Hibbs)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:09:26 +0100
Subject: [Runequest] Divine Intervention in RuneQuest
In-Reply-To: <56e64e7a0910190902m79c38458pc6760215ba9d7c98@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1255944716.2293.1.camel@squirrel>
	<56e64e7a0910190902m79c38458pc6760215ba9d7c98@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8f63b7250910190909u3dd6e199pcfd819afa4cb7998@mail.gmail.com>

Styopia:
> Spreadsheeting this a while ago, a POW 2 character could get his POW up to
> 10 in anything from about 2 weeks to 2 months (lots of variables there).
> (Faster, if you allow more than 1 POW gain roll per day.)

"Tick frenzy", as it was known in my group, is once per week. You need
a week of "down-time" to do skill-ups and POW gain rolls.

Phil Hibbs.
-- 
Don't you just hate self-referential sigs?



From pmaranci at gmail.com  Mon Oct 19 16:10:55 2009
From: pmaranci at gmail.com (Peter Maranci)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:10:55 -0400
Subject: [Runequest] Divine Intervention in RuneQuest
In-Reply-To: <56e64e7a0910190902m79c38458pc6760215ba9d7c98@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1255944716.2293.1.camel@squirrel>
	<56e64e7a0910190902m79c38458pc6760215ba9d7c98@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <aa2df9f20910190910t6a5d2e83jd65b4da742181ce7@mail.gmail.com>

Styopa wrote:

"Then again, if you're following canonical POW gain roll rules, your given
enfeebled adventurers could sit in a local tavern, using disrupt or whatever
1 point spell they have against stray animals, rodents, and frogs (assume
POW 1d6), and relatively quickly train up their POW."

I thought that getting a POW gain roll check required a successful overcome
in a meaningful situation, i.e. potentiall life-threatening? While vermin in
a tavern might give you the plague and kill you that way, any player who
tried to convince ME that overcoming a mouse or rat justified a POW gain
roll would have gotten laughed out of the room.

But I do recall being in that situation. As I recall, we went looking to
fight low-level undead for a while; skeletons usually had a POW of 1, I
believe.

And under RQ3 rules, it was possible for acolytes and higher levels to get
POW gain rolls by leading (or possibly participating in) religious
ceremonies on holy days or high holy days, wasn't it?

->Peter

On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 12:02 PM, Styopa <styopa1 at gmail.com> wrote:

>  On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 4:31 AM, Lev Lafayette <lev at rpgreview.net> wrote:
>
>> Issue
>>
>> There has been a fair bit of Divine Intervention going on in my campaign
>> of late, mainly out of justified desperation as the difficulty level
>> arcs up. But due the rather random nature of DI, the PCs have suffered a
>> great deal with three PCs losing over 18 points of POW each. You can
>> imagine what it is like with three of the PCs now wandering around with
>> almost no chance of casting a Heal I, let alone resisting a Disruption.
>> It lead me to do some investigations on the various editions of the game
>> and some thoughts on which is perhaps better that the rather extreme
>> randomness that currently exists.
>>
>
> Then again, if you're following canonical POW gain roll rules, your given
> enfeebled adventurers could sit in a local tavern, using disrupt or whatever
> 1 point spell they have against stray animals, rodents, and frogs (assume
> POW 1d6), and relatively quickly train up their POW.
> Spreadsheeting this a while ago, a POW 2 character could get his POW up to
> 10 in anything from about 2 weeks to 2 months (lots of variables there).
> (Faster, if you allow more than 1 POW gain roll per day.)
>
> Unfortunately, the RQ3 mechanics work out that with 3 weeks of downtime
> (not ALL that uncommon), characters could argue that they get what is to me
> TOO MUCH POW.
> Starting POW:extra POW after 21 days
> POW 6 = 9-10 points
> POW 9 =  5-8 points
> POW 12 = 3-7 points
> POW 15 = 3-6 points
>
> To me, essentially letting the characters get even a half-dozen POW worth
> of divine magic every 3 weeks is crazy overpowered.  A clever character,
> reasonably secure in his personal safety, with a POW of 16, could burn 10
> points, knowing in 3 weeks he'd probably have them all back.
>
> So yes, this is tangential to your DI questions, but I think not
> irrelevant.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Runequest mailing list
> Runequest at rpgreview.net
> http://rpgreview.net/mailman/listinfo/runequest_rpgreview.net
>
>
-- 
Peter Maranci - pmaranci at gmail.com
Pete's RuneQuest & Roleplaying! http://www.runequest.org/rq.htm
The Diary of A Simple Man: http://bobquasit.livejournal.com/
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From gazza666 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 19 16:20:17 2009
From: gazza666 at gmail.com (Gary Sturgess)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 00:20:17 +0800
Subject: [Runequest] Divine Intervention in RuneQuest
In-Reply-To: <8f63b7250910190909u3dd6e199pcfd819afa4cb7998@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1255944716.2293.1.camel@squirrel>
	<56e64e7a0910190902m79c38458pc6760215ba9d7c98@mail.gmail.com>
	<8f63b7250910190909u3dd6e199pcfd819afa4cb7998@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9ebd81400910190920i60aa90d6m2d034f6203bf879f@mail.gmail.com>

2009/10/20 Phil Hibbs <snarks at gmail.com>:
> Styopia:
>> Spreadsheeting this a while ago, a POW 2 character could get his POW up to
>> 10 in anything from about 2 weeks to 2 months (lots of variables there).
>> (Faster, if you allow more than 1 POW gain roll per day.)
>
> "Tick frenzy", as it was known in my group, is once per week. You need
> a week of "down-time" to do skill-ups and POW gain rolls.

We use a slight variation. Still once per week for skill ups and POW
gain rolls, but you can get two ticks if you special in a skill, and
three if you critical (non-cumulative). And we have allowed all skills
to be improved by experience.

This means that PCs potentially gain more skill points, but on the
other hand you see a little bit less of "right, got my tick with that
weapon, let's use this one next" since you at least wait until you
critical before switching. :)

To be honest, though, I think I might prefer a non-random method of
character improvement.
-- 
GAZZA



From lev at rpgreview.net  Mon Oct 19 20:39:25 2009
From: lev at rpgreview.net (Lev Lafayette)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 07:39:25 +1100
Subject: [Runequest] Character Improvement (was Re: Divine Intervention
	in	RuneQuest)
In-Reply-To: <9ebd81400910190920i60aa90d6m2d034f6203bf879f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1255944716.2293.1.camel@squirrel>
	<56e64e7a0910190902m79c38458pc6760215ba9d7c98@mail.gmail.com>
	<8f63b7250910190909u3dd6e199pcfd819afa4cb7998@mail.gmail.com>
	<9ebd81400910190920i60aa90d6m2d034f6203bf879f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1255984765.31602.4.camel@squirrel>

On Tue, 2009-10-20 at 00:20 +0800, Gary Sturgess wrote:
> 2009/10/20 Phil Hibbs <snarks at gmail.com>:
> We use a slight variation. Still once per week for skill ups and POW
> gain rolls, but you can get two ticks if you special in a skill, and
> three if you critical (non-cumulative). And we have allowed all skills
> to be improved by experience.
> 
> This means that PCs potentially gain more skill points, but on the
> other hand you see a little bit less of "right, got my tick with that
> weapon, let's use this one next" since you at least wait until you
> critical before switching. :)
> 
> To be honest, though, I think I might prefer a non-random method of
> character improvement.

Ah, the joy of RuneQuest being capable of endless variation and still
the same basic game.

In my game we don't roll for experience gains, but we do roll for the
amount increased.

The make up for what would be a rapid increase in abilities otherwise,
ticks - and POW-gain opportunities - only occur at special stress and
dangerous situations. A Runelord fighting a young trollkin doesn't
count. The trollkin fighting the Runelord does!

Normal day-to-day life only results in normal experience increases (such
as the annual experience gain in RQ3).

There is a degree of realism in this insofar there is a number of
psychological studies that show that people do have a stronger memory of
the high-stress and dangerous periods of their life. They become, as it
were, embedded in the brain.




From jurrubin at gmail.com  Mon Oct 19 21:54:03 2009
From: jurrubin at gmail.com (David Smart)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 16:54:03 -0500
Subject: [Runequest] Character Improvement (was Re: Divine Intervention
	in RuneQuest)
In-Reply-To: <1255984765.31602.4.camel@squirrel>
References: <1255944716.2293.1.camel@squirrel>
	<56e64e7a0910190902m79c38458pc6760215ba9d7c98@mail.gmail.com>
	<8f63b7250910190909u3dd6e199pcfd819afa4cb7998@mail.gmail.com>
	<9ebd81400910190920i60aa90d6m2d034f6203bf879f@mail.gmail.com>
	<1255984765.31602.4.camel@squirrel>
Message-ID: <1c92296e0910191454r542be767j43bba43e134b11e6@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 3:39 PM, Lev Lafayette <lev at rpgreview.net> wrote:

> <snip>
> There is a degree of realism in this insofar there is a number of
> psychological studies that show that people do have a stronger memory of
> the high-stress and dangerous periods of their life. They become, as it
> were, embedded in the brain.
>

Assuming, of course, that an opponent's weapon _doesn't_.   :P
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From rog_benham at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 19 22:01:28 2009
From: rog_benham at hotmail.com (Roger Benham)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:01:28 +0100
Subject: [Runequest] Character Improvement (was Re: Divine
	Intervention	in RuneQuest)
In-Reply-To: <1c92296e0910191454r542be767j43bba43e134b11e6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1255944716.2293.1.camel@squirrel>
	<56e64e7a0910190902m79c38458pc6760215ba9d7c98@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL117-W463074D3BADFEDBC22C771E7C10@phx.gbl>


I like the idea of this, given how players can rapidly become a bunch of tick hunters anyway.  What are the actual mechanics of it. Lev?  If the 123% Runelord faces off against the 27% trollkin, how does it go from there?
 


Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 16:54:03 -0500
From: jurrubin at gmail.com
To: runequest at rpgreview.net
Subject: Re: [Runequest] Character Improvement (was Re: Divine Intervention in RuneQuest)


On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 3:39 PM, Lev Lafayette <lev at rpgreview.net> wrote:

<snip>
There is a degree of realism in this insofar there is a number of
psychological studies that show that people do have a stronger memory of
the high-stress and dangerous periods of their life. They become, as it
were, embedded in the brain.

Assuming, of course, that an opponent's weapon _doesn't_.   :P
 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Chat to your friends for free on selected mobiles
http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/174426567/direct/01/
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From lev at rpgreview.net  Tue Oct 20 08:46:08 2009
From: lev at rpgreview.net (Lev Lafayette)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:46:08 +1100
Subject: [Runequest] Character Improvement (was Re:
	Divine	Intervention	in RuneQuest)
In-Reply-To: <COL117-W463074D3BADFEDBC22C771E7C10@phx.gbl>
References: <1255944716.2293.1.camel@squirrel>
	<56e64e7a0910190902m79c38458pc6760215ba9d7c98@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL117-W463074D3BADFEDBC22C771E7C10@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1256028368.28965.11.camel@squirrel>

On Mon, 2009-10-19 at 23:01 +0100, Roger Benham wrote:
> I like the idea of this, given how players can rapidly become a bunch
> of tick hunters anyway.  What are the actual mechanics of it. Lev?  If
> the 123% Runelord faces off against the 27% trollkin, how does it go
> from there?

Hi Roger, 

Well, the short answer it's handwaved according to GM fiat.

The long answer, it is determined by the degree of danger and
desperation, the importance to the plot, and the degree of involvement
of the players.

Assuming that the trollkin in the example above doesn't just turn and
run away (a very trollkin thing to do under the circumstances), it is
almost certain they would get a tick, as their life is great peril. The
Runelord on the other hand would not - unless the trollkin, by good
fortune, critted the Runelord three times in quick succession without
the RL landing a hit - then the situation would be very different
indeed. Hopefully the player would be rapt with concern as well.

Overwhelming odds can make a difference as well; usually the single RL
facing a single trollkin would not be a problem. If he is facing ten
such trollkin may be a different matter.

Out of combat or even danger situations I give players ticks for Search,
World Lore (yes, I know this isn't technically allowed), Fast Talk etc
if their success in said action was important in advancing the plot. For
example the character's search a room, one of them finds a rusty old key
and said key opens the chest in the crypt that contains the McGuffin.
The character (and probably the player!) will have a significant memory
of searching the room, and thus will be rewarded with a tick.

Does all that make sense?

All the best,

Lev




From strobus at sympatico.ca  Tue Oct 20 13:25:37 2009
From: strobus at sympatico.ca (strobus at sympatico.ca)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:25:37 +0000
Subject: [Runequest] Character Improvement (was
	Re:	Divine	Intervention	in RuneQuest)
In-Reply-To: <1256028368.28965.11.camel@squirrel>
References: <1255944716.2293.1.camel@squirrel>
	<56e64e7a0910190902m79c38458pc6760215ba9d7c98@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT124-W3510BE0E85F729B042E135CFC00@phx.gbl>


Hi Lev,

 

I've often thought of doing this myself, but I have one reservation (mainly when it comes to combat skills):

 

With the system as presented in the book, there is less likelihood of a skill increasing the higher it gets. This is built into the system.

 

When you override the system and give the checks out on GM fiat, you take that automatic balance out and have to compensate for it yourself by reducing the number of skill increases you give to more highly skilled characters. You appear to acheive this by not awarding skill checks to easy combats. That makes sense.

 

But as a GM I find that I ramp up the combat difficulty as the players get better. When they first started on their quest, they might have fought off six conventional bandits and they thought that was pretty tough. Last week they fought off the Monkey God with his maddening gaze and 50 monkey minions. If I don't ramp up the combats, they will surely feel under-challenged. If I do ramp up the combats, they WILL feel challened, and because of this they also feel justified in asking for a skill check. So if I increase the combat difficulty as the players get better, wouldn't the rate of skill improvement remain constant as the PCs get better because they are always facing increasingly difficult challenges, instead of decreasing?

 

What has your experience been with this - how have you dealt with it?

 

All the best,

Chris
 
> From: lev at rpgreview.net
> To: runequest at rpgreview.net
> Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:46:08 +1100
> Subject: Re: [Runequest] Character Improvement (was Re: Divine Intervention in RuneQuest)
> 
> On Mon, 2009-10-19 at 23:01 +0100, Roger Benham wrote:
> > I like the idea of this, given how players can rapidly become a bunch
> > of tick hunters anyway. What are the actual mechanics of it. Lev? If
> > the 123% Runelord faces off against the 27% trollkin, how does it go
> > from there?
> 
> Hi Roger, 
> 
> Well, the short answer it's handwaved according to GM fiat.
> 
> The long answer, it is determined by the degree of danger and
> desperation, the importance to the plot, and the degree of involvement
> of the players.
> 
> Assuming that the trollkin in the example above doesn't just turn and
> run away (a very trollkin thing to do under the circumstances), it is
> almost certain they would get a tick, as their life is great peril. The
> Runelord on the other hand would not - unless the trollkin, by good
> fortune, critted the Runelord three times in quick succession without
> the RL landing a hit - then the situation would be very different
> indeed. Hopefully the player would be rapt with concern as well.
> 
> Overwhelming odds can make a difference as well; usually the single RL
> facing a single trollkin would not be a problem. If he is facing ten
> such trollkin may be a different matter.
> 
> Out of combat or even danger situations I give players ticks for Search,
> World Lore (yes, I know this isn't technically allowed), Fast Talk etc
> if their success in said action was important in advancing the plot. For
> example the character's search a room, one of them finds a rusty old key
> and said key opens the chest in the crypt that contains the McGuffin.
> The character (and probably the player!) will have a significant memory
> of searching the room, and thus will be rewarded with a tick.
> 
> Does all that make sense?
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Lev
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Runequest mailing list
> Runequest at rpgreview.net
> http://rpgreview.net/mailman/listinfo/runequest_rpgreview.net
 		 	   		  
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From lev at rpgreview.net  Tue Oct 20 19:51:08 2009
From: lev at rpgreview.net (Lev Lafayette)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 06:51:08 +1100
Subject: [Runequest] Character Improvement
	(was	Re:	Divine	Intervention	in RuneQuest)
In-Reply-To: <SNT124-W3510BE0E85F729B042E135CFC00@phx.gbl>
References: <1255944716.2293.1.camel@squirrel>
	<56e64e7a0910190902m79c38458pc6760215ba9d7c98@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT124-W3510BE0E85F729B042E135CFC00@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1256068268.28965.37.camel@squirrel>

On Tue, 2009-10-20 at 13:25 +0000, strobus at sympatico.ca wrote:
> Hi Lev,

Hi Chris,
 
> With the system as presented in the book, there is less likelihood
> of a skill increasing the higher it gets. This is built into the
> system.

There is less chance of a skill increasing, but there is more chance of
getting an experience check. At low levels, there is a greater
likelihood of getting a skill increase, but less chance of getting an
experience check. At the middle they're about average. Overall it would
seem that the each successful application of a skill has the same chance
(e.g., low = 5% chance of tick + 95% chance of increase, medium = 50%
chance of tick + 50% chance of increase, high = 95% chance of tick + 5%
chance of success).

> for a skill check. So if I increase the combat difficulty as the
> players get better, wouldn't the rate of skill improvement remain
> constant as the PCs get better because they are always facing
> increasingly difficult challenges, instead of decreasing?

... This said, the number of opportunities for an experience check each
scenario is often several; but there is only one opportunity for a
chance of success. So that would, as you say, bias it towards slowing
down the rate of improvement. So yes, in that regard you are correct.
 
> What has your experience been with this - how have you dealt with it?

There are two ways. One is that I simply make such equivalent martial
conflicts less common in the general narrative. As the PCs advance
towards and beyond Runelord/Priest and Shaman status (haven't had a
Magus yet) they become more engrossed in either (a) the politics of the
region (b) the spiritual dimension or (c) most other conflicts are often
walk-overs. 

Effectively they have become the assault troops of their cult and should
be treated as such.

Finally, I have a natural cap in my game of 100% plus characteristic
bonus, which applies to NPCs and PCs equally.

http://rpgreview.net/pipermail/runequest_rpgreview.net/2008-September/000290.html


HTH,



Lev




From strobus at sympatico.ca  Tue Oct 20 20:43:30 2009
From: strobus at sympatico.ca (strobus at sympatico.ca)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 20:43:30 +0000
Subject: [Runequest] Character
	Improvement	(was	Re:	Divine	Intervention	in RuneQuest)
In-Reply-To: <1256068268.28965.37.camel@squirrel>
References: <1255944716.2293.1.camel@squirrel>
	<56e64e7a0910190902m79c38458pc6760215ba9d7c98@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT124-W560BA52B226AC5E609CF30CFC00@phx.gbl>


Those sound like good ways. :)

 

> that I simply make such equivalent martial
> conflicts less common in the general narrative. As the PCs advance
> towards and beyond Runelord/Priest and Shaman status (haven't had a
> Magus yet) they become more engrossed in either (a) the politics of the
> region (b) the spiritual dimension or (c) most other conflicts are often
> walk-overs. 
> 
> Effectively they have become the assault troops of their cult and should
> be treated as such.
> 
> Finally, I have a natural cap in my game of 100% plus characteristic
> bonus, which applies to NPCs and PCs equally.
> 
> http://rpgreview.net/pipermail/runequest_rpgreview.net/2008-September/000290.html
> 
> 
> HTH,
> 
> 
> 
> Lev
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Runequest mailing list
> Runequest at rpgreview.net
> http://rpgreview.net/mailman/listinfo/runequest_rpgreview.net

 		 	   		  
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From gazza666 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 21 01:33:38 2009
From: gazza666 at gmail.com (Gary Sturgess)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:33:38 +0800
Subject: [Runequest] Character Improvement (was Re: Divine Intervention
	in RuneQuest)
In-Reply-To: <1256068268.28965.37.camel@squirrel>
References: <1255944716.2293.1.camel@squirrel>
	<56e64e7a0910190902m79c38458pc6760215ba9d7c98@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT124-W3510BE0E85F729B042E135CFC00@phx.gbl>
	<1256068268.28965.37.camel@squirrel>
Message-ID: <9ebd81400910201833m2c38b78u9d67b1fff60408f9@mail.gmail.com>

2009/10/21 Lev Lafayette <lev at rpgreview.net>:
> There is less chance of a skill increasing, but there is more chance of
> getting an experience check. At low levels, there is a greater
> likelihood of getting a skill increase, but less chance of getting an
> experience check. At the middle they're about average. Overall it would
> seem that the each successful application of a skill has the same chance
> (e.g., low = 5% chance of tick + 95% chance of increase, medium = 50%
> chance of tick + 50% chance of increase, high = 95% chance of tick + 5%
> chance of success).

Unfortunately that reasoning is flawed. You will, in general, get many
more attempts to get an experience check than you will to get a skill
increase, and you only have to succeed once. This is especially true
with combat skills, of course.

As an aside: let's say you have 30% Fist Attack. You successfully
sneak up behind someone, and attack them (+20% to chance, according to
RQ3). You roll 49.

Obviously you succeed, but do you get an experience check? RQ3 seems
silent on this issue, which would imply that you do (the only
requirement RQ3 enforces is that you succeed, after all). My group
have tended to rule that you only get the check if you would have
succeeded without the modifier, but I'm not really sure it's
necessary.
-- 
GAZZA



From tcantine at incentre.net  Wed Oct 21 14:15:08 2009
From: tcantine at incentre.net (Tom Cantine)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 08:15:08 -0600
Subject: [Runequest] Character Improvement (was Re:
	Divine	Intervention	in RuneQuest)
In-Reply-To: <1256028368.28965.11.camel@squirrel>
References: <1255944716.2293.1.camel@squirrel>
	<56e64e7a0910190902m79c38458pc6760215ba9d7c98@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL117-W463074D3BADFEDBC22C771E7C10@phx.gbl>
	<1256028368.28965.11.camel@squirrel>
Message-ID: <c0532b657faecfa38e73da55a875adf9@incentre.net>

Here's what I like to do: Award ticks when the PC fumbles a skill, or 
when paying close attention while someone else gets a special success. 
(Mostly this means if your opponent gets a special against you. 
Obviously you must survive the fight in order to gain the benefit of 
this experience.)



On 20-Oct-09, at 2:46 AM, Lev Lafayette wrote:

> On Mon, 2009-10-19 at 23:01 +0100, Roger Benham wrote:
>> I like the idea of this, given how players can rapidly become a bunch
>> of tick hunters anyway.  What are the actual mechanics of it. Lev?  If
>> the 123% Runelord faces off against the 27% trollkin, how does it go
>> from there?




From ahnen at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 21 16:00:39 2009
From: ahnen at hotmail.com (Mark Ahnen)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:00:39 -0700
Subject: [Runequest] Character Improvement (was
	Re:	Divine	Intervention	in RuneQuest)
In-Reply-To: <c0532b657faecfa38e73da55a875adf9@incentre.net>
References: <1255944716.2293.1.camel@squirrel>
	<56e64e7a0910190902m79c38458pc6760215ba9d7c98@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT127-W187F689C4C65C360D0B2B5A3BF0@phx.gbl>


Those are brilliant applications of the idea that you learn more from your own mistakes.

 

I'll use your ideas.

 

Thanks!
 
> From: tcantine at incentre.net
> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 08:15:08 -0600
> To: runequest at rpgreview.net
> Subject: Re: [Runequest] Character Improvement (was Re: Divine Intervention in RuneQuest)
> 
> Here's what I like to do: Award ticks when the PC fumbles a skill, or 
> when paying close attention while someone else gets a special success. 
> (Mostly this means if your opponent gets a special against you. 
> Obviously you must survive the fight in order to gain the benefit of 
> this experience.)
> 
> 
> 
> On 20-Oct-09, at 2:46 AM, Lev Lafayette wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 2009-10-19 at 23:01 +0100, Roger Benham wrote:
> >> I like the idea of this, given how players can rapidly become a bunch
> >> of tick hunters anyway. What are the actual mechanics of it. Lev? If
> >> the 123% Runelord faces off against the 27% trollkin, how does it go
> >> from there?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Runequest mailing list
> Runequest at rpgreview.net
> http://rpgreview.net/mailman/listinfo/runequest_rpgreview.net
 		 	   		  
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From lev at rpgreview.net  Wed Oct 21 21:10:01 2009
From: lev at rpgreview.net (Lev Lafayette)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:10:01 +1100
Subject: [Runequest] Character Improvement (was
	Re:	Divine	Intervention	in RuneQuest)
In-Reply-To: <c0532b657faecfa38e73da55a875adf9@incentre.net>
References: <1255944716.2293.1.camel@squirrel>
	<56e64e7a0910190902m79c38458pc6760215ba9d7c98@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL117-W463074D3BADFEDBC22C771E7C10@phx.gbl>
	<1256028368.28965.11.camel@squirrel>
	<c0532b657faecfa38e73da55a875adf9@incentre.net>
Message-ID: <1256159401.26359.2.camel@squirrel>

On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 08:15 -0600, Tom Cantine wrote:
> Here's what I like to do: Award ticks when the PC fumbles a skill, or 
> when paying close attention while someone else gets a special success. 
> (Mostly this means if your opponent gets a special against you. 
> Obviously you must survive the fight in order to gain the benefit of 
> this experience.)

*nods* That is certainly a worthwhile extension that follows the
"ingrained in memory" principle.




From pmaranci at gmail.com  Wed Oct 21 22:01:55 2009
From: pmaranci at gmail.com (Peter Maranci)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:01:55 -0400
Subject: [Runequest] Character Improvement (was Re: Divine Intervention
	in RuneQuest)
In-Reply-To: <1256159401.26359.2.camel@squirrel>
References: <1255944716.2293.1.camel@squirrel>
	<56e64e7a0910190902m79c38458pc6760215ba9d7c98@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL117-W463074D3BADFEDBC22C771E7C10@phx.gbl>
	<1256028368.28965.11.camel@squirrel>
	<c0532b657faecfa38e73da55a875adf9@incentre.net>
	<1256159401.26359.2.camel@squirrel>
Message-ID: <aa2df9f20910211501t7097da1ev6f17ff4c8aa30fc7@mail.gmail.com>

I'd imagine that you'd need to have the corresponding skill! For example, if
you get criticalled by a pikeman, but you only know how to use a sword, the
experience won't mean much to you - from a learning perspective, that is.

->Peter

On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Lev Lafayette <lev at rpgreview.net> wrote:

> On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 08:15 -0600, Tom Cantine wrote:
> > Here's what I like to do: Award ticks when the PC fumbles a skill, or
> > when paying close attention while someone else gets a special success.
> > (Mostly this means if your opponent gets a special against you.
> > Obviously you must survive the fight in order to gain the benefit of
> > this experience.)
>
> *nods* That is certainly a worthwhile extension that follows the
> "ingrained in memory" principle.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Runequest mailing list
> Runequest at rpgreview.net
> http://rpgreview.net/mailman/listinfo/runequest_rpgreview.net
>

-- 
Peter Maranci - pmaranci at gmail.com
Pete's RuneQuest & Roleplaying! http://www.runequest.org/rq.htm
The Diary of A Simple Man: http://bobquasit.livejournal.com/
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From ahnen at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 21 22:50:03 2009
From: ahnen at hotmail.com (Mark Ahnen)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:50:03 -0700
Subject: [Runequest] Character Improvement (was Re: Divine
	Intervention	in RuneQuest)
In-Reply-To: <aa2df9f20910211501t7097da1ev6f17ff4c8aa30fc7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1255944716.2293.1.camel@squirrel>
	<56e64e7a0910190902m79c38458pc6760215ba9d7c98@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT127-W226BAA4C0CAB5420204B42A3BF0@phx.gbl>


That's a bit narrow.  'IF' you survived that pike critical, you would be in a better position to parry in the future as you may have learned some valuable lessons.

 

Sorta like the Germans learning the tank game, they took a bit of a hit from Allied tanks in WWI, but they employed the lessons w/ WWII tanks, not other WWI tanks (and there was a WORLD of difference between tanks in those 30 years).

 

My best,
 


Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:01:55 -0400
From: pmaranci at gmail.com
To: runequest at rpgreview.net
Subject: Re: [Runequest] Character Improvement (was Re: Divine Intervention in RuneQuest)

I'd imagine that you'd need to have the corresponding skill! For example, if you get criticalled by a pikeman, but you only know how to use a sword, the experience won't mean much to you - from a learning perspective, that is.

->Peter


On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Lev Lafayette <lev at rpgreview.net> wrote:


On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 08:15 -0600, Tom Cantine wrote:
> Here's what I like to do: Award ticks when the PC fumbles a skill, or
> when paying close attention while someone else gets a special success.
> (Mostly this means if your opponent gets a special against you.
> Obviously you must survive the fight in order to gain the benefit of
> this experience.)

*nods* That is certainly a worthwhile extension that follows the
"ingrained in memory" principle.





_______________________________________________
Runequest mailing list
Runequest at rpgreview.net
http://rpgreview.net/mailman/listinfo/runequest_rpgreview.net

-- 
Peter Maranci - pmaranci at gmail.com
Pete's RuneQuest & Roleplaying! http://www.runequest.org/rq.htm
The Diary of A Simple Man: http://bobquasit.livejournal.com/
 		 	   		  
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From pmaranci at gmail.com  Wed Oct 21 23:29:16 2009
From: pmaranci at gmail.com (Peter Maranci)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:29:16 -0400
Subject: [Runequest] Character Improvement (was Re: Divine Intervention
	in RuneQuest)
In-Reply-To: <SNT127-W226BAA4C0CAB5420204B42A3BF0@phx.gbl>
References: <1255944716.2293.1.camel@squirrel>
	<56e64e7a0910190902m79c38458pc6760215ba9d7c98@mail.gmail.com>
	<aa2df9f20910211501t7097da1ev6f17ff4c8aa30fc7@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT127-W226BAA4C0CAB5420204B42A3BF0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <aa2df9f20910211629p4af28406x522cf685c015db8d@mail.gmail.com>

It makes more sense to me that it might give you a chance to improve your
*parry*. But if you've never used a pike, I'm not at all sure that getting
critted by one should improve your pike attack skill!

On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 6:50 PM, Mark Ahnen <ahnen at hotmail.com> wrote:

>  That's a bit narrow.  'IF' you survived that pike critical, you would be
> in a better position to parry in the future as you may have learned some
> valuable lessons.
>
> Sorta like the Germans learning the tank game, they took a bit of a hit
> from Allied tanks in WWI, but they employed the lessons w/ WWII tanks, not
> other WWI tanks (and there was a WORLD of difference between tanks in those
> 30 years).
>
> My best,
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:01:55 -0400
> From: pmaranci at gmail.com
> To: runequest at rpgreview.net
> Subject: Re: [Runequest] Character Improvement (was Re: Divine Intervention
> in RuneQuest)
>
> I'd imagine that you'd need to have the corresponding skill! For example,
> if you get criticalled by a pikeman, but you only know how to use a sword,
> the experience won't mean much to you - from a learning perspective, that
> is.
>
> ->Peter
>
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Lev Lafayette <lev at rpgreview.net> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 08:15 -0600, Tom Cantine wrote:
> > Here's what I like to do: Award ticks when the PC fumbles a skill, or
> > when paying close attention while someone else gets a special success.
> > (Mostly this means if your opponent gets a special against you.
> > Obviously you must survive the fight in order to gain the benefit of
> > this experience.)
>
> *nods* That is certainly a worthwhile extension that follows the
> "ingrained in memory" principle.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Runequest mailing list
> Runequest at rpgreview.net
> http://rpgreview.net/mailman/listinfo/runequest_rpgreview.net
>
>
> --
> Peter Maranci - pmaranci at gmail.com
> Pete's RuneQuest & Roleplaying! http://www.runequest.org/rq.htm
> The Diary of A Simple Man: http://bobquasit.livejournal.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Runequest mailing list
> Runequest at rpgreview.net
> http://rpgreview.net/mailman/listinfo/runequest_rpgreview.net
>
>


-- 
Peter Maranci - pmaranci at gmail.com
Pete's RuneQuest & Roleplaying! http://www.runequest.org/rq.htm
The Diary of A Simple Man: http://bobquasit.livejournal.com/
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From tcantine at incentre.net  Thu Oct 22 00:08:28 2009
From: tcantine at incentre.net (Tom Cantine)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:08:28 -0600
Subject: [Runequest] Character Improvement (was Re: Divine Intervention
	in RuneQuest)
In-Reply-To: <aa2df9f20910211501t7097da1ev6f17ff4c8aa30fc7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1255944716.2293.1.camel@squirrel>
	<56e64e7a0910190902m79c38458pc6760215ba9d7c98@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL117-W463074D3BADFEDBC22C771E7C10@phx.gbl>
	<1256028368.28965.11.camel@squirrel>
	<c0532b657faecfa38e73da55a875adf9@incentre.net>
	<1256159401.26359.2.camel@squirrel>
	<aa2df9f20910211501t7097da1ev6f17ff4c8aa30fc7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8bceffeaf04c360e1746193a6b2082ae@incentre.net>

Well, it need not actually be the same skill; it could be the opposed 
skill. For example, if you get criticalled by a pikeman, odds are you 
left yourself open in some critically vulnerable way. So in that case, 
I'd actually allow a skill tick for parry or dodge. So later on, 
reflecting on the experience while recuperating, the PC recognizes "If 
only I'd led with my LEFT foot, he wouldn't have caught me off-balance 
like that!"


On 21-Oct-09, at 4:01 PM, Peter Maranci wrote:

> I'd imagine that you'd need to have the corresponding skill! For 
> example, if you get criticalled by a pikeman, but you only know how to 
> use a sword, the experience won't mean much to you - from a learning 
> perspective, that is.
>
> ->Peter
>
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 5:10 PM, Lev Lafayette <lev at rpgreview.net> 
> wrote:
>> On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 08:15 -0600, Tom Cantine wrote:
>>  > Here's what I like to do: Award ticks when the PC fumbles a skill, 
>> or
>>  > when paying close attention while someone else gets a special 
>> success.
>>  > (Mostly this means if your opponent gets a special against you.
>>  > Obviously you must survive the fight in order to gain the benefit 
>> of
>>  > this experience.)
>>
>> *nods* That is certainly a worthwhile extension that follows the
>>  "ingrained in memory" principle.
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Runequest mailing list
>> Runequest at rpgreview.net
>> http://rpgreview.net/mailman/listinfo/runequest_rpgreview.net
>
> -- 
> Peter Maranci - pmaranci at gmail.com
> Pete's RuneQuest & Roleplaying! http://www.runequest.org/rq.htm
>  The Diary of A Simple Man: http://bobquasit.livejournal.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Runequest mailing list
> Runequest at rpgreview.net
> http://rpgreview.net/mailman/listinfo/runequest_rpgreview.net




