From lancelot at inetnebr.com Wed Nov 1 01:09:25 2006 From: lancelot at inetnebr.com (Lance Dyas) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 08:09:25 -0600 Subject: [Rq-rules] *** JUNK MAIL ***Re: Morality In-Reply-To: <20061031104517.660.qmail@web51004.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061031104517.660.qmail@web51004.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45475915.1060201@inetnebr.com> Simon Phipp wrote: > To echo previous points, if you use Cult standards, Personality Traits > from Griffin Mountain and Passions for cults then you have a pretty > solid set of guidelines on how your PC is likely to act in any given > situation. You probably don't need more than that, especially as you > don't want your PC to be controlled by these stats, merely guided. Yahoo... - "alignment" always was an excessive simplification of human behavior almost as bad as the lumping people in two categories trick you see many places... instead of thinking about the motivations and point of view of others. However in fantasy the us and them simplification may be a part an parcel to it. People may not want to game in the grey. The clarity of generalization making ethics simple well it appeals to some. Game rules which sanction or promote such simplification may be doing a game genre trick ..... "Morality" as something different than "ethics" is even more culturally specific ... > > Also, to open up a can of worms, morality is defined by the culture > and setting, so a Zorak Zorani would have a different personal moral > code to a Chalana Arroy healer to a Brithini sorcerer, the same is > true for non-Glorantha settings. > Exactly... From carpgachair at yahoo.com Wed Nov 1 02:35:14 2006 From: carpgachair at yahoo.com (Paul Cardwell) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 07:35:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Siz and Hit Points In-Reply-To: <20061031095102.50172.qmail@web86102.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061031153514.95269.qmail@web31802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Ashley Munday wrote: > Why not use the old Gateway Bestiary suggestion that > you get two points of natural armour for every d6 of > damage bonus to represent the effect of high STR and > SIZ? > Because SIZ is not a good indicator of armor and STR is totally irrelevant to the subject other than that muscle thickness may give slight protection to vital organs below. Turtles, armadillos, and almost any exoskeleton creature has high natural armor in relation to its size, while a rhino has high armor compared to a similar sized water buffalo which only has high armor on its forehead (19 in hit location). If you care about accuracy (and I realize a substantial portion of FRPGs do not), then each species must be considered on its own features - even fabulous beasts should follow the laws of biophysics to a reasonable degree (large flying creatures being an exception in that regard only as they do not typically have two meter sternums to anchor the necessary flight muscles). Paul Cardwell __________________________________________________________________________________________ Check out the New Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. (http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta) From anders at california.com Wed Nov 1 03:32:20 2006 From: anders at california.com (Anders Swenson) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 08:32:20 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] Siz and Hit Points In-Reply-To: <20061031095102.50172.qmail@web86102.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 09:51:02 +0000 (GMT) Ashley Munday wrote: > Why not use the old Gateway Bestiary suggestion that > you get two points of natural armour for every d6 of > damage bonus to represent the effect of high STR and > SIZ? > Remind me, how old is Gaeway bestiary? Is that the first work Sandy got printed back in the day, before CoC? Sandy's degree was in something biological, possibly zoology, IIRC. It's an old idea, but the tragic thing about critter encounters in any FRP is that they tend to wimp out against a good party of hunters. So any automatic increase of armor is a good thing. And speaking of which: see next post. --Anders From anders at california.com Wed Nov 1 03:35:56 2006 From: anders at california.com (Anders Swenson) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 08:35:56 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] Hunting In-Reply-To: <20061031095102.50172.qmail@web86102.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Back in the day about the time I was reading Sandy's old beastiary ms and making praisful comments, I was interested in modelling hunting in game terms. I have never wielded any hunting weapon in anger (only military ones), and I have no idea how it would go down, especially in the primative Orlanthi culture. I'd like any comments, especially from any of you who have actually done it, maybe to do a simple flow chart. --Anders From gianni at basicrps.com Wed Nov 1 04:14:03 2006 From: gianni at basicrps.com (Gianni) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 18:14:03 +0100 Subject: [Rq-rules] Spolite Message-ID: <20061031171419.940ECE243F0@mini.thinbits.net> Kevin, > There is some info in the Entekosiad and Fortunate Succession, but not > much. Basically, it was a Darkness worshiping empire early in the > Second Age that was toppled by the Carmanians after Syranthir and the > Ten Thousand arrived in the Oronin Valley. Thanks a lot. I see there's some info in the Imperial Lunar Handbook Vol.I too. Cheers, Gianni From nshapero at ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 1 05:36:22 2006 From: nshapero at ix.netcom.com (Niall C. Shapero) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 10:36:22 -0800 (GMT-08:00) Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: RQ-Rules Digest, Vol 13, Issue 21 Message-ID: <20810889.1162319782678.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net> What I did for OTHER SUNS was to break size up into length and build. Length was the major dimension of the character (USUALLY his height) in centimeters. Build was the "stockiness" of the character. These two were rolled characteristics. Then I computed SIZE based on these two characteristics: SIZ = (LEN/10) + (BLD/3) - 1, rounding all fractions up (so 19.1 rounds up to 20). Mass (as opposed to weight) was the cube of SIZ divided by 100 (in kilograms). Then for hit points, I started with 2/3rds the SIZ, and modified it by Constitution, Endurance (think fatigue points) and WILL (sort of a power equivalent, though not PRECISELY the same). This produced a reasonable range for humans, and scaled up and down for the other player character species in the game in a way I liked. Oh, there are a few glitches at the far extremes, but they've not really come up in (now) some 25+ years of campaign play (yes, I started this thing a LONG time ago). Typical humans have 14-16 hit points, and the most common handgun does about that many points damage per shot (a head or torso hit is pretty much a guaranteed kill against an unarmored target, a leg or arm hit is disabling). Body armor makes a BIG difference. But I made the basic decision to equate hit points to size (the bigger the beast, the harder it is to kill, in effect). Maybe not entirely accurate, but it's worked well enough. -- N. C. Shapero, who does actually read this list rather religiously, but seldom has anything all that relevant to say...:-) -----Original Message----- >Message: 2 >Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2006 20:29:06 +0000 >From: "alan richards" >Subject: [Rq-rules] Siz and Hit Points >To: rq-rules at crashbox.com >Message-ID: > <50a0ed550610301229m3bf1566bv3b6081fbdc6a39eb at mail.gmail.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >On 10/30/06, rq-rules-request at crashbox.com >wrote: > >I too am not a fan of arms race CON values and stick with a cap of 21 for >mortals (if I ever run a game with Celestial, Fae or Diabolic beings this no >longer applies). >In order to make sure that big beasties are not short changed on the old HPs >I suggest HPs = (Con+Siz+Str) /3 * >The rationale being that a creature with high Str has lots of muscle tissue >to absorb the force of a blow (and a correspondingly more robust skeleton >and more blood, and so on) > > >Alan > >* actually on the very rare occasions I use Hit Locations I make HP = >(Con+Siz+Str) /2 for a little more robustness From jurrubin at gmail.com Wed Nov 1 06:19:57 2006 From: jurrubin at gmail.com (David Smart) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 13:19:57 -0600 Subject: [Rq-rules] Hunting In-Reply-To: References: <20061031095102.50172.qmail@web86102.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1c92296e0610311119j5ca81498m6c74b413cd0e1034@mail.gmail.com> Start with Search to find tracks, include Tracking to learn from/follow them, then add in Scan/Listen rolls as the tracks get fresher. Once the query is found, Sneak/Hide and weapon skills come into play. On 10/31/06, Anders Swenson wrote: > > Back in the day about the time I was reading Sandy's old beastiary ms and > making praisful comments, I was interested in modelling hunting in game > terms. I have never wielded any hunting weapon in anger (only military > ones), > and I have no idea how it would go down, especially in the primative > Orlanthi > culture. I'd like any comments, especially from any of you who have > actually > done it, maybe to do a simple flow chart. > > --Anders > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061031/42b5595c/attachment.html From styopa1 at gmail.com Wed Nov 1 07:46:25 2006 From: styopa1 at gmail.com (Styopa) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:46:25 -0600 Subject: [Rq-rules] *** JUNK MAIL ***Re: Morality In-Reply-To: <45475915.1060201@inetnebr.com> References: <20061031104517.660.qmail@web51004.mail.yahoo.com> <45475915.1060201@inetnebr.com> Message-ID: <56e64e7a0610311246m3f4c2a68n98eeea50b8ab89af@mail.gmail.com> On 10/31/06, Lance Dyas wrote: > > Yahoo... - "alignment" always was an excessive simplification of human > behavior almost as bad as the lumping people in two categories trick you > see many places... > instead of thinking about the motivations and point of view of others. > It would be very handy to have a set of 'personality tables' that one could roll on, I'd be particularly interested to add something like that to my random NPC/monster generation spreadsheet. Just for creativity's sake, so that GMs don't accidentally drift into stereotypical personalities for NPCs: not every farmer has to be a kindly, charitable, pragmatic fellow, if you get my drift. Heck, you could build a whole evening's adventure out of the character's spending the night in the barn of an exceptionally deviant farmer family. Could be scary, could be hilarious. Perhaps it would be more useful to define various spectra of personalities - from altruistic to utterly self-centered, for example. Unfortunately even the DEFINING of these spectra say more about the GM than the NPCs, I fear. I know there are 'personality tests' out there that have some credibility in the psychological fields, has anyone ported this into game terms? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061031/b480eb41/attachment.html From styopa1 at gmail.com Wed Nov 1 07:55:25 2006 From: styopa1 at gmail.com (Styopa) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:55:25 -0600 Subject: [Rq-rules] Siz and Hit Points In-Reply-To: References: <20061031095102.50172.qmail@web86102.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56e64e7a0610311255s58725869m4a90ec8e57918596@mail.gmail.com> On 10/31/06, Anders Swenson wrote: > > IIRC. It's an old idea, but the tragic thing > about critter encounters in any FRP is that they tend to wimp out against > a > good party of hunters. So any automatic increase of armor is a good thing. > Typical Adult Tiger using my house rules (summary only) STR 33 Move 7 CON 15 MP 13 SIZ 21 Fat 21 INT 5 HP 17 POW 13 Dmg Bonus +3d4 DEX 15 Hide 91 Sneak 91 Bite Att 127, damage 1d4+3d4 Foreclaw att 77, dmg 1d6+3d4 Against a good party of hunters? Sure, the hunters would probably win (they do in real life) but if there may be more than one tiger (as happens in real life) it's unlikely all the hunters would be coming home.... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061031/1cabe48f/attachment.html From anders at california.com Wed Nov 1 09:43:17 2006 From: anders at california.com (Anders Swenson) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:43:17 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] Hunting In-Reply-To: <1c92296e0610311119j5ca81498m6c74b413cd0e1034@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 13:19:57 -0600 "David Smart" wrote: > Start with Search to find tracks, include Tracking to learn from/follow > them, then add in Scan/Listen rolls as the tracks get fresher. Once the > query is found, Sneak/Hide and weapon skills come into play. > > On 10/31/06, Anders Swenson wrote: > > > > Back in the day about the time There could be some preliminary Area Knowledge rolls, making sure the hunters show up where the game is, i suppose. What about hunting magic to bless the hunters, attract/appease the animals and/or their spirits? (brainstorming at this point, maybe we can whip this into something.) Waha has peaceful cut for sort of this purpose, what else is thers? Yes, I know Waha is not strictly Orlanthi. How about successful sneak successes to reduce the range of the Attack? How many Natgure/Animal lore and track/sense successes do you need to get to the sneak phase? Hunting ought to be an automatic process that is just done, GMs have more important things to get creative about. Please help me take it further! --Anders From anders at california.com Wed Nov 1 09:48:47 2006 From: anders at california.com (Anders Swenson) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:48:47 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] Siz and Hit Points In-Reply-To: <56e64e7a0610311255s58725869m4a90ec8e57918596@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 14:55:25 -0600 Styopa wrote: > On 10/31/06, Anders Swenson wrote: > > > > IIRC. It's an old idea, but the tragic thing > > about critter encounters in any FRP is that they tend to wimp out against > > a > > good party of hunters. So any automatic increase of armor is a good > thing. > > > > Typical Adult Tiger using my house rules (summary only) > STR 33 Move 7 > CON 15 MP 13 > SIZ 21 Fat 21 > INT 5 HP 17 > POW 13 Dmg Bonus +3d4 > DEX 15 > > Hide 91 > Sneak 91 > Bite Att 127, damage 1d4+3d4 > Foreclaw att 77, dmg 1d6+3d4 > > Against a good party of hunters? Sure, the hunters would probably win > (they > do in real life) but if there may be more than one tiger (as happens in > real > life) it's unlikely all the hunters would be coming home.... Nice kitty kat, nice kitty... Of course, Tigers are pretty solitary. Lionesses, on the other hand, hunt in teams. What are the recorded behaviours of lion packs against hunting parties, anyone know? --Anders From jurrubin at gmail.com Wed Nov 1 09:51:30 2006 From: jurrubin at gmail.com (David Smart) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 16:51:30 -0600 Subject: [Rq-rules] Hunting In-Reply-To: References: <1c92296e0610311119j5ca81498m6c74b413cd0e1034@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1c92296e0610311451h30425c43la03da7ca01225c8d@mail.gmail.com> Hmm. I use the steps I posted only for PCs who want to run with the tribes, so to speak. Of course, once the prey is brought down, everyone gets to share a bite of the beasty's still-beating heart and fresh brains (to obtain the animal's strength and cunning) while the PCs receive the honor of consuming the testicles because they were so brave (the PCs, not the testicles). The players never went on another hunt. Odd, that; I thought they rather enjoyed the chase. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061031/edcfc2a3/attachment.html From tcantine at incentre.net Wed Nov 1 15:24:16 2006 From: tcantine at incentre.net (Tom Cantine) Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:24:16 -0700 Subject: [Rq-rules] Siz and Hit Points In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I believe I have read that lions have learned to avoid humans, for the most part. Individual males sometimes kill for fun, and will go after humans on occasion, but packs of females are out to feed themselves and their cubs, and the risk/reward ratio isn't very good with humans. We're too scrawny to feed the pride, and too dangerous to be worth the effort. Lionesses are exceptionally good at hunting as a team, but their team tactics are optimized for herds of zebras, wildebeests, and the like. I don't know about any actual battles between groups of humans and prides of lionesses, but I imagine it happens, especially if there's a dispute over a carcass. Packs of hyenas sometimes come into conflict with prides, and some nasty skirmishes result. But I don't recall if lionesses do much hijacking of kills; I know male lions do so often. I suspect that groups of human hunters have more trouble with hyenas or lions than with lionesses. Unless the humans are trying to hijack the lionesses' kill. In any event, I expect it would be an extremely ugly fight. On 31-Oct-06, at 3:48 PM, Anders Swenson wrote: > > Of course, Tigers are pretty solitary. Lionesses, on the other hand, > hunt in > teams. What are the recorded behaviours of lion packs against hunting > parties, anyone know? > > --Anders > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > From postmaster at runequest.za.org Wed Nov 1 18:32:51 2006 From: postmaster at runequest.za.org (postmaster at runequest.za.org) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 09:32:51 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Siz and Hit Points In-Reply-To: References: <56e64e7a0610311255s58725869m4a90ec8e57918596@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <53527.196.8.104.31.1162366371.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> Anders wrote: > > > Nice kitty kat, nice kitty... > > Of course, Tigers are pretty solitary. Lionesses, on the other hand, hunt > in > teams. What are the recorded behaviours of lion packs against hunting > parties, anyone know? > Well now, depends. Some lions are fussy and don't go for humans, others less so. Lone male lions are known to be pretty oppertunistic and will basically eat anything including carion. It also depends if a lion has a fear of humans. Where I stay (South Africa), there is a massive game reserve (as in one of the largest in the world) on the border with Mozambique. A number of people from Mozambique cross through the game reserve in search of work/better life etc. Some of them are killed and eaten by lions. Now, while they are not hunters per se it does show that lions do loose any fear they may have of humans. From julian.lord at gmail.com Wed Nov 1 22:02:26 2006 From: julian.lord at gmail.com (Julian Lord) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 12:02:26 +0100 Subject: [Rq-rules] Siz and Hit Points Message-ID: <1e842f7f0611010302m5e5017b4vf1c8441a7cb467c@mail.gmail.com> Paul Cardwell : --- Ashley Munday wrote: > > > Why not use the old Gateway Bestiary suggestion that > > you get two points of natural armour for every d6 of > > damage bonus to represent the effect of high STR and > > SIZ? > > > > Because SIZ is not a good indicator of armor and STR > is totally irrelevant to the subject other than that > muscle thickness may give slight protection to vital > organs below. Turtles, armadillos, and almost any > exoskeleton creature has high natural armor in > relation to its size, while a rhino has high armor > compared to a similar sized water buffalo which only > has high armor on its forehead (19 in hit location). Right, but relative Mass is a very good indicator of how easy/difficult it is for larger/smaller creatures to damage each other... pussy cats, despite their natural weaponry, will have a hard time damaging young ladies, simply because of the Mass differential and related kinetic factors, whereas young ladies can dispose of pussy cats with relative ease. In fact this is the underlying principle behind the Damage Bonus rules, but there is no corresponding damage resistance (natural armour) rule, in any edition of the rules . ;) If you care about accuracy (and I realize a > substantial portion of FRPGs do not), then each > species must be considered on its own features - even > fabulous beasts should follow the laws of biophysics > to a reasonable degree (large flying creatures being > an exception in that regard only as they do not > typically have two meter sternums to anchor the > necessary flight muscles). The presence of natural armour in the rules would not forbid providing certain creatures with extra armour, either all over or just in certain hit locations. The trouble with Basic Roleplaying is that it was originally designed to be a fairly realistic rules set centered on the characteristics of normal humanity. But in an environment where player characters can be ducks, trollkins, or newtlings or whatever ; or dark trolls, or have thge ability to turn into tigers, or elephants, or whatever ; relative Mass considerations should be factored IMO far more closely into the game design, not by spot rules on how much armour each different creature might have, but by a rules system such as the one proposed by Sandy, and which incidentally I have independently developed in my house rules (and I am pleased to learn that Sandy came up with a basically similar system to my own). Ideally, there should be no such thing as a negative damage modifier, all creatures should have natural armour based on their SIZ + CON (for simplicity' sake, using the same total as for HP determination), and the damage bonus should be slightly improved to compensate. What I have is (MRQ-era house rules) : NATURAL ARMOUR SIZ+CON / AP 1-5 / 0 AP 6-10 / 1 AP 11-15 / 2 AP 16-20 / 3 AP 21-25 / 4 AP 26-30 / 5 AP 31-35 / 6 AP 36-40 / 7 AP each +5 / +1 AP DAMAGE BONUS STR+CON 1-5 / +0 6-10 / +1D2 11-15 / +1D4 16-20 / +1D6 21-25 / +1D8 26-30 / +1D10 31-35 / +1D12 36-40 / +2D6 41-45 / +2D10 46-50 / +3D6 51-60 / +4D6 61-70 / +5D6 each +10 / +1D6 Damage bonus increases at a higher rate than natural armour, as the purpose is NOT to kill playability Human averages would be 4 AP and +1D10 damage, so in a fight between human and human they would on average cancel out, but not so in human vs duck or human vs elephant. Julian Lord -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061101/3081e9f9/attachment.html From mason.bruce at gmail.com Wed Nov 1 23:05:07 2006 From: mason.bruce at gmail.com (Bruce Mason) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 12:05:07 +0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] Siz and Hit Points In-Reply-To: <1e842f7f0611010302m5e5017b4vf1c8441a7cb467c@mail.gmail.com> References: <1e842f7f0611010302m5e5017b4vf1c8441a7cb467c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5f3990080611010405k406d0eb2rfd0a69562fa700b@mail.gmail.com> On 01/11/06, Julian Lord wrote: > > > Ideally, there should be no such thing as a negative damage modifier, all > creatures should have natural armour based on their SIZ + CON (for > simplicity' sake, using the same total as for HP determination), and the > damage bonus should be slightly improved to compensate. > I've snipped the details for convenience sake. It's certainly an interesting approach. It relatively emphasises the damage bonus compared to the weapon. An average human punches for 1d3+d10 but short sword attacks for (don't have the tables in front of me) something like d6+d10. Not sure what to think of that. It looks as if bare skin provides the same APs as chainmail and that will throw people. I think you're right in that increasing HPs by SIZ doesn't adequately reflect the difference between creatures. For example, no matter how many times I punch an elephant in the head I suspect that the worst I can do is mildly irritate it. (I suppose I could fight dirty and gouge it in the eye but that's a different issue.) To simulate that, the elephant needs to have enough APs to be able to ignore humans punching it in the head. In terms of representation (how well does a RPG seem to represent) damage, humans tend to be the baseline and anything which seems to give humans natural skin protection feels wrong especially when worn armour starts with leather at 1AP. People will look at natural armour and compare it to worn armour and it will immediately feel like it fails to represent adequately. I'm currently deriving house rules based on MRQ and am presently using a multipurpose SIZ modifier. Basically, SIZ 1-5: modifier = -1, 16-20: modifier=0, 21-30: modifier =+1, 31-40: modifier =+2 and so on. I use the modifer *10 as a negative% in agility skills (dodging etc) among other things. You *could* also say that on average any living creature has natural APs equal to its SIZ modifer - some with more (shells) and some with less. The aim, is to keep the maths simple and to try to ensure that a PC straight out of the box tends not to have too many modifiers (i.e. the human range is generally the level at which the game gives +/-0). It doesn't fully capture the relationship: after all, no matter how long I spend headbutting an elephant in the knee, I don't expect to achieve anything other than a sore head. If I really wanted to veer away from RQ then I would be tempted to have a general purpose STR modifier. STR 1-5: modifier =-1, 6-10:=0, 11-15=+1, 16-20= +2, 21-30=+3, 31-40=+4 etc You damage bonus would be equal to STR mod + SIZ mod and most creatures have AP = SIZ mod. Weighting STR over SIZ on the basis that you need to be able to damage each other.* If I really, really wanted to veer away I would try something like: your STRength modifier reflects how relatively muscled you are for your SIZ. So, STR mod = (STR-SIZ)/5 - round up. Your damage bonus would equal STR mod + SIZ mod. This however would give most humans an innate damage bonus of -1 as their STR is slightly less than their SIZ. Your Maths May Vary. Bruce *Actually, at first look, I'm quite tempted by this. It may not accelerate enough for really big creatures. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061101/a30d2c66/attachment.html From aescleal at btinternet.com Wed Nov 1 23:45:46 2006 From: aescleal at btinternet.com (Ashley Munday) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 12:45:46 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Rq-rules] Siz and Hit Points In-Reply-To: <20061031153514.95269.qmail@web31802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061101124546.41994.qmail@web86108.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Oh, silly me! I obviously said "The only armour a creature gets is based on it's damage bonus. It is completely forbidden to add extra armour to any hit location." Ash --- Paul Cardwell wrote: > --- Ashley Munday wrote: > > > Why not use the old Gateway Bestiary suggestion > that > > you get two points of natural armour for every d6 > of > > damage bonus to represent the effect of high STR > and > > SIZ? > > > > Because SIZ is not a good indicator of armor and STR > is totally irrelevant to the subject other than that > muscle thickness may give slight protection to vital > organs below. Turtles, armadillos, and almost any > exoskeleton creature has high natural armor in > relation to its size, while a rhino has high armor > compared to a similar sized water buffalo which only > has high armor on its forehead (19 in hit location). > > If you care about accuracy (and I realize a > substantial portion of FRPGs do not), then each > species must be considered on its own features - > even > fabulous beasts should follow the laws of biophysics > to a reasonable degree (large flying creatures being > an exception in that regard only as they do not > typically have two meter sternums to anchor the > necessary flight muscles). > > Paul Cardwell > > > > __________________________________________________________________________________________ > Check out the New Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more > powerful email and get things done faster. > (http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta) > > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > From styopa1 at gmail.com Thu Nov 2 02:31:39 2006 From: styopa1 at gmail.com (Styopa) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 09:31:39 -0600 Subject: [Rq-rules] Siz and Hit Points In-Reply-To: <5f3990080611010405k406d0eb2rfd0a69562fa700b@mail.gmail.com> References: <1e842f7f0611010302m5e5017b4vf1c8441a7cb467c@mail.gmail.com> <5f3990080611010405k406d0eb2rfd0a69562fa700b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <56e64e7a0611010731n37aaac6fsd97788f78ba36ae7@mail.gmail.com> On 11/1/06, Bruce Mason wrote: > > > I think you're right in that increasing HPs by SIZ doesn't adequately > reflect the difference between creatures. For example, no matter how many > times I punch an elephant in the head I suspect that the worst I can do is > mildly irritate it. (I suppose I could fight dirty and gouge it in the eye > but that's a different issue.) To simulate that, the elephant needs to have > enough APs to be able to ignore humans punching it in the head. > Which, canonically, it does. IIRC Elephants have 8 AP (and something like 13-15 hp) in his head, ie a human, even with a 1d6 damage bonus, is going to be hard -pressed to accomplish ANYTHING punching an elephant anywhere - and one could argue that a max damage roll of 3+6 in that case IS a strike to the eyeball which is pretty much just going to get the striker smushed. :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061101/79192bce/attachment.html From anders at california.com Thu Nov 2 03:47:35 2006 From: anders at california.com (Anders Swenson) Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 08:47:35 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] Siz and Hit Points In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:24:16 -0700 Tom Cantine wrote: > I believe I have read that lions have learned to avoid humans, for the most > part. Individual males sometimes kill for fun, and will go after humans on > occasion, but packs of females are out to feed themselves and their cubs, > and the risk/reward ratio isn't very good with humans. We're too scrawny to > feed the pride, and too dangerous to be worth the effort. Lionesses are > exceptionally good at hunting as a team, but their team tactics are > optimized for herds of zebras, wildebeests, and the like. > > I don't know about any actual battles between groups of humans and prides > of lionesses, but I imagine it happens, especially if there's a dispute > over a carcass. Packs of hyenas sometimes come into conflict with prides, > and some nasty skirmishes result. But I don't recall if lionesses do much > hijacking of kills; I know male lions do so often. I suspect that groups of > human hunters have more trouble with hyenas or lions than with lionesses. > Unless the humans are trying to hijack the lionesses' kill. > > In any event, I expect it would be an extremely ugly fight. > > On 31-Oct-06, at 3:48 PM, Anders Swenson wrote: > > > > Of course, Tigers are pretty solitary. Lionesses, on the other hand, > > hunt in > > teams. What are the recorded behaviours of lion packs against hunting > > parties, anyone know? > > > > --Anders Imagine if the lionesses organized to take out a herd of human hunters the way they do a herd of antilope! --Anders From carpgachair at yahoo.com Thu Nov 2 04:25:17 2006 From: carpgachair at yahoo.com (Paul Cardwell) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 09:25:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Siz and Hit Points In-Reply-To: <20061101124546.41994.qmail@web86108.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061101172517.44599.qmail@web31812.mail.mud.yahoo.com> What? I was under the impression that the discussion was on natural armor. Obviously one can pile on constructed armor to the point of immobility - or as some systems I have seen, in fine disregard of the square-cube law. Paul Cardwell --- Ashley Munday wrote: > Oh, silly me! I obviously said "The only armour a > creature gets is based on it's damage bonus. It is > completely forbidden to add extra armour to any hit > location." > > Ash > > --- Paul Cardwell wrote: > > > --- Ashley Munday wrote: > > > > > Why not use the old Gateway Bestiary suggestion > > that > > > you get two points of natural armour for every > d6 > > of > > > damage bonus to represent the effect of high STR > > and > > > SIZ? > > > > > > > Because SIZ is not a good indicator of armor and > STR > > is totally irrelevant to the subject other than > that > > muscle thickness may give slight protection to > vital > > organs below. Turtles, armadillos, and almost any > > exoskeleton creature has high natural armor in > > relation to its size, while a rhino has high armor > > compared to a similar sized water buffalo which > only > > has high armor on its forehead (19 in hit > location). > > > > If you care about accuracy (and I realize a > > substantial portion of FRPGs do not), then each > > species must be considered on its own features - > > even > > fabulous beasts should follow the laws of > biophysics > > to a reasonable degree (large flying creatures > being > > an exception in that regard only as they do not > > typically have two meter sternums to anchor the > > necessary flight muscles). > > > > Paul Cardwell > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________________________________ > > Check out the New Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more > > powerful email and get things done faster. > > (http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta) > > > > _______________________________________________ > > RQ-Rules mailing list > > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > > > > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > __________________________________________________________________________________________ Check out the New Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. (http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta) From carpgachair at yahoo.com Thu Nov 2 04:49:08 2006 From: carpgachair at yahoo.com (Paul Cardwell) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 09:49:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Siz and Hit Points In-Reply-To: <1e842f7f0611010302m5e5017b4vf1c8441a7cb467c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061101174908.91711.qmail@web31813.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Julian Lord wrote: > In fact this is the underlying principle behind the > Damage Bonus rules, but > there is no corresponding damage resistance (natural > armour) rule, in any > edition of the rules . ;) Except in that unsuccessful attempt to be the RQ3 rules, Mythworld. All animals in the bestiary have figures for natural armor absorption points in impale, slash, and crush damage. Indeed, the Mythworld Bestiary is probably the only game resource to be used by a major museum to prepare an exhibit (Dallas Museum of Natural History, 1980, "Animal Olympics") because speeds and jumping distances are in real dimensions. It also includes life-cycle chronology, population densities, territory size, etc. as well as the expected data on hit locations and points, natural weapons, and such. Paul Cardwell ____________________________________________________________________________________ Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail (http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/) From tiggermb at verizon.net Thu Nov 2 05:59:08 2006 From: tiggermb at verizon.net (tiggermb at verizon.net) Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 12:59:08 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Compare and Contrast: Gods Vs Cults Message-ID: <21854987.574401162407548528.JavaMail.root@vms074.mailsrvcs.net> I use the AH RQIII box set, but I tend not to use gloratha as a setting. With that in mind, as a GM looking for ideas about religions and magic in his own universe, what would be a more useful item; the reprint of the RQII "Cults Compendium" of the RQIII Gods of Glorantha? What specifically do you prefer about eah one? What are the major differences? Thanks for your input! From tcantine at incentre.net Thu Nov 2 14:59:38 2006 From: tcantine at incentre.net (Tom Cantine) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 20:59:38 -0700 Subject: [Rq-rules] Siz and Hit Points In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8F6C4370-6A26-11DB-9A19-000D9334A9EA@incentre.net> It would be very ugly indeed, but the problem for the lionesses would be that human hunters know they can't possibly run away, while an antelope has excellent speed. Also, the humans are less likely to abandon each other; they'll circle the wagons and set spears vs. charge. Like I said, ugly. On 1-Nov-06, at 9:47 AM, Anders Swenson wrote: >>> > > Imagine if the lionesses organized to take out a herd of human hunters > the > way they do a herd of antilope! > --Anders > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > From steve at perrinworlds.com Thu Nov 2 17:36:13 2006 From: steve at perrinworlds.com (Steve Perrin) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 22:36:13 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] Siz and Hit Points References: <1e842f7f0611010302m5e5017b4vf1c8441a7cb467c@mail.gmail.com><5f3990080611010405k406d0eb2rfd0a69562fa700b@mail.gmail.com> <56e64e7a0611010731n37aaac6fsd97788f78ba36ae7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002201c6fe49$30e41700$a4407442@chaosce4015e22> When you start talking about integral armor based on stats, you are starting to go into the Hero System and you have to start making distinctions between killing damage and impact damage. A strong human may have 4 points of protection against a fist or club, but a sword or spear is going to go right through it. Animals have similar problems. I have no problem with this. Hero System is one of my favorite systems. But you do have to make a distinction between the two types of damage. Steve Perrin, who hasn't notice that he has any particular armor against a 1d3 fist, even if his SIZ is about 15... ----- Original Message ----- From: Styopa To: Discussion of RuneQuest rules. Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 7:31 AM Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Siz and Hit Points On 11/1/06, Bruce Mason wrote: I think you're right in that increasing HPs by SIZ doesn't adequately reflect the difference between creatures. For example, no matter how many times I punch an elephant in the head I suspect that the worst I can do is mildly irritate it. (I suppose I could fight dirty and gouge it in the eye but that's a different issue.) To simulate that, the elephant needs to have enough APs to be able to ignore humans punching it in the head. Which, canonically, it does. IIRC Elephants have 8 AP (and something like 13-15 hp) in his head, ie a human, even with a 1d6 damage bonus, is going to be hard -pressed to accomplish ANYTHING punching an elephant anywhere - and one could argue that a max damage roll of 3+6 in that case IS a strike to the eyeball which is pretty much just going to get the striker smushed. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ RQ-Rules mailing list RQ-Rules at crashbox.com http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061101/1d616373/attachment.html From lorgryt at comcast.net Thu Nov 2 18:20:39 2006 From: lorgryt at comcast.net (Bo Whitten) Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 23:20:39 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] Compare and Contrast: Gods Vs Cults In-Reply-To: <21854987.574401162407548528.JavaMail.root@vms074.mailsrvcs .net> References: <21854987.574401162407548528.JavaMail.root@vms074.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20061101231521.0249a6e8@comcast.net> This is a hard call. Both are good. So let me give you the differences. Cults Compendium is a reprint of several cults with complete histories and backgrounds, but it is not a complete list, having just a few cults compared to Gods of Glorantha. GoG in contrast has overviews of Gloranthan histories for the different pantheons. It lacks background myth, but is full of spells, skills and basic information on cults. So, if you are looking for spells and skills look to GoG, if you want ideas on how to create complete myths for cults and pantheons look to Cults Compendium. I personally like them both, and use them both. For non-Gloranthan games I tend toward GoG just because of its skills and spells. Hope this helps, Lorgryt At 10:59 AM 11/1/2006, you wrote: >I use the AH RQIII box set, but I tend not to use gloratha as a setting. > >With that in mind, as a GM looking for ideas about religions and magic in his own universe, what would be a more useful item; the reprint of the RQII "Cults Compendium" of the RQIII Gods of Glorantha? What specifically do you prefer about eah one? What are the major differences? > >Thanks for your input! > > >_______________________________________________ >RQ-Rules mailing list >RQ-Rules at crashbox.com >http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules From joemills at columbus.rr.com Thu Nov 2 21:04:02 2006 From: joemills at columbus.rr.com (Joe Mills) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 05:04:02 -0500 Subject: [Rq-rules] Siz and Hit Points In-Reply-To: <002201c6fe49$30e41700$a4407442@chaosce4015e22> Message-ID: <000d01c6fe66$3a742f90$0201a8c0@laptop2> I've found that an eye is an eye, and blackens nicely no matter how expanded the waistline. -- Joe _____ From: rq-rules-bounces at crashbox.com [mailto:rq-rules-bounces at crashbox.com] On Behalf Of Steve Perrin Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 1:36 AM To: Discussion of RuneQuest rules. Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Siz and Hit Points When you start talking about integral armor based on stats, you are starting to go into the Hero System and you have to start making distinctions between killing damage and impact damage. A strong human may have 4 points of protection against a fist or club, but a sword or spear is going to go right through it. Animals have similar problems. I have no problem with this. Hero System is one of my favorite systems. But you do have to make a distinction between the two types of damage. Steve Perrin, who hasn't notice that he has any particular armor against a 1d3 fist, even if his SIZ is about 15... ----- Original Message ----- From: Styopa To: Discussion of RuneQuest rules. Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 7:31 AM Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Siz and Hit Points On 11/1/06, Bruce Mason wrote: I think you're right in that increasing HPs by SIZ doesn't adequately reflect the difference between creatures. For example, no matter how many times I punch an elephant in the head I suspect that the worst I can do is mildly irritate it. (I suppose I could fight dirty and gouge it in the eye but that's a different issue.) To simulate that, the elephant needs to have enough APs to be able to ignore humans punching it in the head. Which, canonically, it does. IIRC Elephants have 8 AP (and something like 13-15 hp) in his head, ie a human, even with a 1d6 damage bonus, is going to be hard -pressed to accomplish ANYTHING punching an elephant anywhere - and one could argue that a max damage roll of 3+6 in that case IS a strike to the eyeball which is pretty much just going to get the striker smushed. :) _____ _______________________________________________ RQ-Rules mailing list RQ-Rules at crashbox.com http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061102/94cca33f/attachment.html From soltakss at yahoo.com Thu Nov 2 22:12:59 2006 From: soltakss at yahoo.com (Simon Phipp) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 11:12:59 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Compare and Contrast: Gods Vs Cults In-Reply-To: <20061102100410.EC71AE3CBBF@mini.thinbits.net> Message-ID: <20061102111259.18928.qmail@web51002.mail.yahoo.com> Bo Whitten: > This is a hard call. Both are good. So let me give you the differences. > > Cults Compendium is a reprint of several cults with complete histories and backgrounds, but it is not a > complete list, having just a few cults compared to Gods of Glorantha. > > GoG in contrast has overviews of Gloranthan histories for the different pantheons. It lacks background myth, but > is full of spells, skills and basic information on cults. That's absolutely spot on. > So, if you are looking for spells and skills look to GoG, if you want ideas on how to create complete myths for > cults and pantheons look to Cults Compendium. Yep, I'd agree. There are a few cults in Cults Compendium that aren't in GoG but there are a lot more cults in GoG that aren't in CC, and the GoG writeups are a lot easier to use. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061102/527a5663/attachment.html From julian.lord at gmail.com Fri Nov 3 00:35:33 2006 From: julian.lord at gmail.com (Julian Lord) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 14:35:33 +0100 Subject: [Rq-rules] Siz and Hit Points Message-ID: <1e842f7f0611020535j267020d0y60dcb2e7c70a1513@mail.gmail.com> Steve : When you start talking about integral armor based on stats, you are starting > to go into the Hero System and you have to start making distinctions between > killing damage and impact damage. A strong human may have 4 points of > protection against a fist or club, but a sword or spear is going to go right > through it. Animals have similar problems. > > I have no problem with this. Hero System is one of my favorite systems. > But you do have to make a distinction between the two types of damage. > > Steve Perrin, who hasn't notice that he has any particular armor against a > 1d3 fist, even if his SIZ is about 15... You make excellent points :) In my house rules, the difference between soft and hard weapons can actually just be drawn from the difference in damage dice from various kinds of weaponry, natural or artificial ; soft or hard. Well, basically you can just use the basic RQ damage values ... ;-) Natural armour actually improves the distinction between the two, IMO, as a 1d3 fist will only do damage if backed up by a good roll on the damage bonus -- which doesn't mean knockback etc can't occur... I'm about SIZ 16 I guess, and I have occasionally had people hit me with full force to no effect whatsoever, in fact once some guy hit me and hurt his hand... My own idea is that this is not really based on Mass, I'm just using this as a convenient game convention. The real principle behind my own take on this idea is that it is actually much harder to hurt someone or some animal than was presented in RQ3. RQ1&2 of course had the Defense rules, and the natural armour rules I'm using are an attempt to recreate the effects of RQ2 Defense in a more system-friendly statistical manner. I would have used SIZ+DEX as the basis for natural AP, except I wanted to put the natural AP in the same place as the basic hit locations table, for pure playability' sake... Julian Lord -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061102/7b6f61ac/attachment.html From sunwolfek12 at sbcglobal.net Fri Nov 3 01:21:32 2006 From: sunwolfek12 at sbcglobal.net (andrep) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 06:21:32 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] Intelligent Lions In-Reply-To: <20061102100410.E1FEAE3CBBE@mini.thinbits.net> Message-ID: It would be ugly...add just an INT point or two and you could get and encounter-scenario as deadly as any with a "mythological-magical" creature from legend. Check this wiki out on the man-eaters of Tsavo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsavo_maneaters Sometimes in the rush for the exotic and unique, what our world has to offer as fodder for adventure is overlooked. To use "common" lions in such a manner, the calculating and creative GM could create a terrifying encounter for their players they would long remember or rue. It would serve to make the mythological creature encounter all the more daunting and tense, thus heightening dynamic tension. What some of our terran creatures can do under the right circumstances is truly amazing. Just the other day I heard a news-story concerning a lady who what attacked by a large raccoon infected with rabies. It took three people to kill the animal, two of them men hitting it in the head with a tire-iron upwards of 20 times. The woman survived, but not until after an almost as hair-raising encounter with the US medical system which nearly resulted in her not getting the rabies-serum in time! Ugly indeed. "By the gods! If only two lions could thin out our party until there was only two of us left, what do you think is going to happen when we take on a single gryphon! We're gonna need bigger _________*." * guns, spells, swords, etc-you fill in the blank. Andre' -----Original Message----- Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 20:59:38 -0700 From: Tom Cantine Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Siz and Hit Points To: "Discussion of RuneQuest rules." Message-ID: <8F6C4370-6A26-11DB-9A19-000D9334A9EA at incentre.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed It would be very ugly indeed, but the problem for the lionesses would be that human hunters know they can't possibly run away, while an antelope has excellent speed. Also, the humans are less likely to abandon each other; they'll circle the wagons and set spears vs. charge. Like I said, ugly. _______________________________________________ RQ-Rules mailing list RQ-Rules at crashbox.com http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.thinbits.net/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061102/94cca33f/att achment.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ RQ-Rules mailing list RQ-Rules at crashbox.com http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules End of RQ-Rules Digest, Vol 14, Issue 3 *************************************** From rog_benham at hotmail.com Fri Nov 3 01:38:12 2006 From: rog_benham at hotmail.com (Roger Benham) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 14:38:12 +0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] Intelligent Lions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061102/5363402f/attachment.html From slposey at slposey.cnc.net Fri Nov 3 03:30:36 2006 From: slposey at slposey.cnc.net (Stephen Posey) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 09:30:36 -0700 (MST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Siz and Hit Points In-Reply-To: <1e842f7f0611010302m5e5017b4vf1c8441a7cb467c@mail.gmail.com><5f3990080611010405k406d0eb2rfd0a69562fa700b@mail.gmail.com> <56e64e7a0611010731n37aaac6fsd97788f78ba36ae7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200611021630.LAA17905@bellona.cnc.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061102/32dd7d39/attachment.html From bick10 at comcast.net Fri Nov 3 06:10:18 2006 From: bick10 at comcast.net (Jim Bickmeyer) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 19:10:18 +0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] Intelligent Lions Message-ID: <110220061910.26352.454A429A000501AD000066F02200750784CFCE050C070D@comcast.net> Was inspired by the movie The Ghost and the Darkness and used it on my players once. I got them when they realized that there was not one, but two. Then they realized that they had been stalked by Darkness while they were hunting Ghost. From tcantine at incentre.net Fri Nov 3 15:54:22 2006 From: tcantine at incentre.net (Tom Cantine) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 21:54:22 -0700 Subject: [Rq-rules] Intelligent Lions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5F42141E-6AF7-11DB-9348-000D9334A9EA@incentre.net> A friend once told me about a game he ran for someone who turned out to be a psychotic munchkin of a player. My friend was appalled when this fellow's character, just for fun, went into a peasant family's cottage and murdered the lot of them. Then, on his way out, he thought it would be fun to kill their cow, so he smacked it over the head really hard with a shovel. Cows are usually pretty docile, but they DO have horns, and when they're angry and threatened, well, an unprepared human will not last very long. My friend welcomed the opportunity to give that player's character an exit that included a well-deserved stomping into manure. On 2-Nov-06, at 7:38 AM, Roger Benham wrote: > I do remember terrifying and battering a party with a flesh-eating > horse once... nasty hooves, trample and bite.? It scared them- they > climbed trees to hide from it! From tcantine at incentre.net Fri Nov 3 15:57:16 2006 From: tcantine at incentre.net (Tom Cantine) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 21:57:16 -0700 Subject: [Rq-rules] Siz and Hit Points In-Reply-To: <200611021630.LAA17905@bellona.cnc.net> References: <200611021630.LAA17905@bellona.cnc.net> Message-ID: I do something like that, but instead of a separate stun point tally, I just apply fatigue for effective stun damage. On 2-Nov-06, at 9:30 AM, Stephen Posey wrote: > > > > Discussion of RuneQuest rules. wrote: > > When you start talking about integral armor based on stats, you are > starting to go into the Hero System and you have to start making > distinctions between killing damage and impact damage. A strong human > may have 4 points of protection against a fist or club, but a sword or > spear is going to go right through it. Animals have similar problems. > ? > I have no problem with this. Hero System is one of my favorite > systems. But you do have to make a distinction between the two types > of damage. > ? > Steve Perrin, who hasn't notice that he has any particular armor > against a 1d3 fist, even if his SIZ is about 15... > > ? > This segues nicely into a house rule I've been pondering but never had > the chance to try yet. > ? > Loosely based on the damage system in Aftermath! it assumes there's > two kinds of damage: Stun and Lethal; points of both are tracked on > HP, but recover at different rates: Lethal over days (as in the > current HP healing rules) and Stun over a matter of minutes or hours > (say 1d3 pts per 10 minutes of rest or per hour of continued > activity). > ? > As a simplifying convention for tracking the points, I thought when > Lethal damage is received, any existing Stun points are turned Lethal > before the Lethal points come off HP. > ? > I'd also use a Stormbringer/Elric!-like convention for Critical > Injuries due to Lethal damage over and above general HP reduction. > Large amounts of Stun wouldn't result in a Critical Injury, but might > have other effects (dazed, unconscious, etc.). > ? > If the amount of Stun received exceeds HP, the additional?points "wrap > around" and start being ticked off as Lethal. > ? > The different weapon classes?can be defined?to do factions of each > kind: > Slicing/Stabbing?-- all Lethal > Chopping?????????? -- 1/2 Lethal: 1/2 Stun > Blunt???????????????? -- 1 pt of lethal per die, the rest Stun > ? > (this is an example of how it could be done, again based on the > Aftermath! approach, I'm open to?tweaking the?amounts based on > experience or other ideas). > ? > This allows you to make some interesting distinctions, e.g. a SPIKED > mace?can do more Lethal damage than a Flanged mace which in turn does > more than a plain club. > ? > It also lets you draw distinctions between "attack modes" for a weapon. > ? > Other situational damage (e.g. from falls, knockback, energy attacks, > even cold) seem to me to be better modelled using Stun damage this > way. > ? > Thoughts? > ? > Stephen Posey > slposey at concentric.net > ? > ? > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 3993 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061102/d6bd2631/attachment.bin From postmaster at runequest.za.org Fri Nov 3 20:26:59 2006 From: postmaster at runequest.za.org (postmaster at runequest.za.org) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 11:26:59 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Intelligent Lions In-Reply-To: <110220061910.26352.454A429A000501AD000066F02200750784CFCE050C070D@com cast.net> References: <110220061910.26352.454A429A000501AD000066F02200750784CFCE050C070D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <19405.196.8.104.31.1162546019.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> Good movie and now you mention it, I think I will try similar with my party Tony > Was inspired by the movie The Ghost and the Darkness and used it on my > players once. I got them when they realized that there was not one, but > two. Then they realized that they had been stalked by Darkness while > they were hunting Ghost. > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > From gianni at basicrps.com Fri Nov 3 22:57:24 2006 From: gianni at basicrps.com (Gianni) Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 12:57:24 +0100 Subject: [Rq-rules] Compare and Contrast: Gods Vs Cults Message-ID: <20061103115725.E5054E4C141@mini.thinbits.net> Hi > With that in mind, as a GM looking for ideas about religions and magic in his > own universe, what would be a more useful item; the reprint of the RQII > "Cults Compendium" of the RQIII Gods of Glorantha? What specifically do you > prefer about eah one? What are the major differences? If you are looking for mere 'ideas', you can have a look at GoG. If you wanna 'steal' spells and skills, choose the Cults Compendium. Gianni From lancelot at inetnebr.com Sat Nov 4 13:41:16 2006 From: lancelot at inetnebr.com (Lance Dyas) Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 20:41:16 -0600 Subject: [Rq-rules] Intelligent Lions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <454BFDCC.9080906@inetnebr.com> Roger Benham wrote: > > I do remember terrifying and battering a party with a flesh-eating > horse once... nasty hooves, trample and bite. It scared them- they > climbed trees to hide from it! > Carnivorous horses are featured in greek mythology I vaguely recall and a science fiction fantasy world where normal horses died off and folks attempted to gene engineer something to replace them. very very cool From rog_benham at hotmail.com Sat Nov 4 23:08:01 2006 From: rog_benham at hotmail.com (Roger Benham) Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2006 12:08:01 +0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] Intelligent Lions In-Reply-To: <454BFDCC.9080906@inetnebr.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061104/51601d3e/attachment.html From lancelot at inetnebr.com Sun Nov 5 00:36:38 2006 From: lancelot at inetnebr.com (Lance Dyas) Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2006 07:36:38 -0600 Subject: [Rq-rules] Intelligent Lions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <454C9766.3000002@inetnebr.com> Roger Benham wrote: > > I'd be interested to read it! > It was a part of the Heracles Myth http://library.thinkquest.org/05aug/00212/greek.html " These particular mares, owned by the giant Diomedes, were four uncontrollable, frenzied man-eating horses, and the animals Heracles was after to steal. Heracles, bringing along a youth named Abderus with him, succeeded in making away with the four mares - although with Diomedes hot on his heels. Heracles then made the enormous and possibly delicious mistake of leaving Abderus behind with the mares while Heracles went to fight off Diomedes and his men, which resulted, as he later found in dismay, of the horses making a tasty and slightly gruesome meal out of human. Understandably not taking this in a very kindly manner, Heracles relieved his grief somewhat by feeding Diomedes to his own carnivorous mares, and took advantage of the post-feasting doze of the horses to bind shut their mouths and lead them back to Eurytheus." > All I did was use the standard horse and let it eat meat- I think the > bite damage from a horse is highly overdone; we use 1D4 instead of the > 1D10, but the carnivorous horse did 1D10 anyway. > > I remember reading a 2000AD comic years and years ago in which Johnny > Alpha ended up in a parallel world called Hell, and pursued by variant > four horsemen of the apocalypse. > > They rode armoured, lizard-like horses > Horse like lizards (or are those lizard like horses?) also featured in Talislanta .... called them Equus > > which I use extensively in my medievalesque campaign. > Robert Jordan's Wheel of time had an oriental style culture which made use of dinosaur like creatures including flying ones used as mounts (no they werent considered dragons) though they were not really central to the chronicles. > > > From: /Lance Dyas / > Reply-To: /"Discussion of RuneQuest rules." / > To: /"Discussion of RuneQuest rules." / > Subject: /Re: [Rq-rules] Intelligent Lions/ > Date: /Fri, 03 Nov 2006 20:41:16 -0600/ > >Roger Benham wrote: > >> > >>I do remember terrifying and battering a party with a flesh-eating > >>horse once... nasty hooves, trample and bite. It scared them- they > >>climbed trees to hide from it! > >> > >Carnivorous horses are featured in greek mythology I vaguely recall > >and a science fiction fantasy world where normal horses died off and > >folks attempted to gene engineer something to replace them. very > >very cool > > > I'm not remembering what the science fiction novel was Time for the Stars by Heinlein has intelligent ones.. but that isn't the one I'm remembering. sigh.* * From carpgachair at yahoo.com Sun Nov 5 02:31:41 2006 From: carpgachair at yahoo.com (Paul Cardwell) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 07:31:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Intelligent Lions; sub: meat-eating herbivores In-Reply-To: <454C9766.3000002@inetnebr.com> Message-ID: <388110.13244.qm@web31806.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Then there are several horse, kine, etc. fabulous beasts which are omnivorous despite anatomical parts which resemble herbivores: centaurs, minotaurs, etc. On the other hand, there are carnivores for whom meat is a small proportion of their diet (pandas) or most of the meat is insects or rodents while the bulk is roots and berries (bears). Still, I would tend to consider carnivorous horses as at least a different species from the usual equines, if not outside genus Equus. Which is not to say they should not be used. Paul Cardwell ____________________________________________________________________________________ Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's cheap PC-to-Phone call rates (http://voice.yahoo.com) From soltakss at yahoo.com Mon Nov 6 21:25:02 2006 From: soltakss at yahoo.com (Simon Phipp) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 10:25:02 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Rq-rules] *** JUNK MAIL ***Re: Intelligent Lions In-Reply-To: <20061104153152.3DA79E5C8E7@mini.thinbits.net> Message-ID: <20061106102502.61603.qmail@web51009.mail.yahoo.com> Lance Dyas: > Roger Benham wrote: >> >> I do remember terrifying and battering a party with a flesh-eating >> horse once... nasty hooves, trample and bite. It scared them- they >> climbed trees to hide from it! >> > Carnivorous horses are featured in greek mythology I vaguely recall and > a science fiction fantasy world where normal horses died off and folks > attempted to gene engineer something to replace them. very very cool In Glorantha, the Pentians have bred carnivorous horses as a halfway house to breeding Hippogriffs. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061106/a06a299d/attachment.html From anders at california.com Mon Nov 6 16:06:02 2006 From: anders at california.com (Anders Swenson) Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2006 21:06:02 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] Intelligent Lions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 04 Nov 2006 12:08:01 +0000 "Roger Benham" wrote: > > I'd be interested to read it!  All I did was use the standard horse > and let it eat meat- I think the bite damage from a horse is highly > overdone; we use 1D4 instead of the 1D10, but the carnivorous horse did > 1D10 anyway. > I remember reading a 2000AD comic years and years ago in which Johnny Alpha > ended up in a parallel world called Hell, and pursued by variant four > horsemen of the apocalypse.  They rode armoured, lizard-like horses > which I use extensively in my medievalesque campaign. > Like the Dragonewt riding birds? --Anders > From:  Lance Dyas > <lancelot at inetnebr.com>Reply-To:  "Discussion of RuneQuest > rules." <rq-rules at crashbox.com>To:  "Discussion of > RuneQuest rules." <rq-rules at crashbox.com>Subject:  Re: > [Rq-rules] Intelligent LionsDate:  Fri, 03 Nov 2006 20:41:16 > -0600>Roger Benham wrote:>>>>I do remember terrifying and > battering a party with a flesh-eating >>horse once... nasty hooves, > trample and bite.  It scared them- they >>climbed trees to > hide from it!>>>Carnivorous horses are featured in greek mythology > I vaguely recall >and a science fiction fantasy world where normal > horses died off and >folks attempted to gene engineer something to > replace them. very >very > cool>>_______________________________________________>RQ-Rules > mailing > list>RQ-Rules at crashbox.com>http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rulesBe > the first to hear what's new at MSN - sign up to our free newsletters! > From styopa1 at gmail.com Tue Nov 7 03:09:18 2006 From: styopa1 at gmail.com (Styopa) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 10:09:18 -0600 Subject: [Rq-rules] Intelligent Lions In-Reply-To: <454C9766.3000002@inetnebr.com> References: <454C9766.3000002@inetnebr.com> Message-ID: <56e64e7a0611060809o8d45334q4431cb081e5d7ed6@mail.gmail.com> On 11/4/06, Lance Dyas wrote: > > It was a part of the Heracles Myth > http://library.thinkquest.org/05aug/00212/greek.html > " These particular mares, owned by the giant Diomedes, were four > uncontrollable, frenzied man-eating horses, and the animals Heracles was > after to steal. Heracles, bringing along a youth named Abderus with him, > succeeded in making away with the four mares - although with Diomedes > hot on his heels. Heracles then made the enormous and possibly delicious > mistake of leaving Abderus behind with the mares while Heracles went to > fight off Diomedes and his men, which resulted, as he later found in > dismay, of the horses making a tasty and slightly gruesome meal out of > human. > Accident.....right. Let's see, I'm going to perform some great dangerous feat of heroism, I think I'll take along a young lad! (I'm setting aside Greek proclivities, granted; nevertheless, I doubt any hero would take along an unseasoned youth of either gender just for kicks.) No, I believe that the rough edges have been 'smoothed' by modernity. I prefer to read that Heracles, knowing he's going to be stealing horses that could easily bite through any crappy rope he uses, realizes there's ANOTHER way to keep them occupied while he's off a-heroing. Heh, not *always* that great to be a hero's sidekick. Especially if he goes through them quickly. :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061106/5a024630/attachment.html From rog_benham at hotmail.com Tue Nov 7 05:55:53 2006 From: rog_benham at hotmail.com (Roger Benham) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 18:55:53 +0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] Intelligent Lions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061106/c201a091/attachment.html From rog_benham at hotmail.com Tue Nov 7 06:01:39 2006 From: rog_benham at hotmail.com (Roger Benham) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 19:01:39 +0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] Intelligent Lions In-Reply-To: <56e64e7a0611060809o8d45334q4431cb081e5d7ed6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061106/31e32f81/attachment.html From anders at california.com Thu Nov 9 09:29:29 2006 From: anders at california.com (Anders Swenson) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 14:29:29 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] RQIV vs RQVI In-Reply-To: <200610231903.PAA13726@atlas.cnc.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:03:12 -0600 (MDT) Stephen Posey wrote: > > ---- Discussion of RuneQuest rules. wrote: > > > > On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 08:30:55 -0500 > > Lance Dyas wrote: > > >[snip] > > > > > The latest Release doesn't call itself anything but Rune Quest though > it > > > could have chosen a 4th edition tag line (not yet purchased this > > > champing at the bit) > > > > > Funny you should say that, I have several copies of MRQ lacking > customers. > > Too bad you're probably not in the States. > > --Anders > > I, however, AM in the US and don't yet have a copy. > > How much are you selling them for? (include S&H if you please). > Would you still want the book? --ANDERS From slposey at concentric.net Thu Nov 9 15:48:10 2006 From: slposey at concentric.net (Stephen Posey) Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 21:48:10 -0700 Subject: [Rq-rules] RQIV vs RQVI In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4552B30A.6070406@concentric.net> Anders Swenson wrote: > On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 13:03:12 -0600 (MDT) > Stephen Posey wrote: >> ---- Discussion of RuneQuest rules. wrote: >>> On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 08:30:55 -0500 >>> Lance Dyas wrote: >>>> [snip] >>>> The latest Release doesn't call itself anything but Rune Quest though >> it >>>> could have chosen a 4th edition tag line (not yet purchased this >>>> champing at the bit) >>>> >>> Funny you should say that, I have several copies of MRQ lacking >> customers. >>> Too bad you're probably not in the States. >>> --Anders >> I, however, AM in the US and don't yet have a copy. >> >> How much are you selling them for? (include S&H if you please). >> > Would you still want the book? > --ANDERS I apologize, I should have written to you sooner. I would love the book; and I don't mean to whine or sound like I'm making excuses, but things have just been really rough this year and I find myself in a financial bind right now. It's going to be another two weeks before I'll have the dough. I appreciate your patience, and if you can wait that would be terrific; but if you have other ready paying customers please don't feel obliged to hold a copy for me. Thanks, Stephen Posey slposey at concentric.net From leonbk at yahoo.com Tue Nov 14 06:16:13 2006 From: leonbk at yahoo.com (Leon Kirshtein) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:16:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Muchrooms map Message-ID: <841428.7185.qm@web31211.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I am running the Munchrooms scenerio for a bunch of friends online, but alas my scanner is broken. Does anyone have a image of the trollkin map of Munchrooms either online or is willing to email it to me? Leon --- rq-rules-bounces at crashbox.com wrote: > Hi all > > I published a new spell on my site. Use it/don't use it, comments welcome. > > Tony > > Battle Blade (Battle Club) > 2 Points > Touch, instant, stackable, reusable > War God > This spell must be cast on a melee weapon and will only last so long as > the caster is holding the weapon. Battle blade will make the weapon look > and behave as if it were made of an immediately superior material and > quality. Thus a bronze gladius of good quality would behave as if I were > an iron sword of excellent quality. The weapons AP are adjusted to match > the new quality for so long as the spell runs. AP lost only transfer to > the weapons normal AP when the spells wears off if its original AP value > was breached. Thus a bronze gladius with 10 normal AP which took on AP of > 12 for the duration of the spell would: > o Revert to 10 if 0, 1 or two AP were lost. > o Revert to 9 if 3 AP were lost, 8 if 4 AP lost etc. > Additional quality is simulated through an additional +5% to attack and > parry rolls per 2 magic points spent. Superior material is simulated > through an additional +1 point of damage per 2 magic points spent. > > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From styopa1 at gmail.com Tue Nov 21 08:52:06 2006 From: styopa1 at gmail.com (Styopa) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:52:06 -0600 Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Discussion of RuneQuest rules In-Reply-To: <56e64e7a0609140832u6afd9ba4m94fbe872649c7ec8@mail.gmail.com> References: <56e64e7a0609140832u6afd9ba4m94fbe872649c7ec8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <56e64e7a0611201352m6a8d5b38h1ddbfc1211e95bd5@mail.gmail.com> To check that this list is still alive, and relevant to the discussion about nasty (normal) animals, I have to say that the result of this both surprised me and didn't - if that makes any sense at all: http://www.fmft.net/archives/BBC_NEWS.htm "Lion Mutilates 42 Midgets in Cambodian Ring-Fight Spectators cheered as entire Cambodian Midget Fighting League squared off against African Lion Tickets had been sold-out three weeks before the much anticipated fight, which took place in the city of K?mp?ng Chhn?ng. The fight was slated when an angry fan contested Yang Sihamoni, President of the CMFL, claiming that one lion could defeat his entire league of 42 fighters. Sihamoni takes great pride in the league he helped create, as was conveyed in his recent advertising campaign for the CMFL that stated his midgets will "... take on anything; man, beast, or machine." This campaign is believed to be what sparked the undisclosed fan to challenge the entire league to fight a lion; a challenge that Sihamoni readily accepted. An African Lion (Panthera Leo) was shipped to centrally located K?mp?ng Chhn?ng especially for the event, which took place last Saturday, April 30, 2005 in the city's coliseum. The Cambodian Government allowed the fight to take place, under the condition that they receive a 50% commission on each ticket sold, and that no cameras would be allowed in the arena. The fight was called in only 12 minutes, after which 28 fighters were declared dead, while the other 14 suffered severe injuries including broken bones and lost limbs, rendering them unable to fight back. Sihamoni was quoted before the fight stating that he felt since his fighters out-numbered the lion 42 to 1, that they "? could out-wit and out-muscle [it]." Unfortunately, he was wrong." 12 minutes. Holy god. I hope the lion at least won his freedom? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061120/070d4057/attachment.html From styopa1 at gmail.com Tue Nov 21 08:54:03 2006 From: styopa1 at gmail.com (Styopa) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:54:03 -0600 Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Discussion of RuneQuest rules In-Reply-To: <56e64e7a0611201352m6a8d5b38h1ddbfc1211e95bd5@mail.gmail.com> References: <56e64e7a0609140832u6afd9ba4m94fbe872649c7ec8@mail.gmail.com> <56e64e7a0611201352m6a8d5b38h1ddbfc1211e95bd5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <56e64e7a0611201354m6e26d85dq9c0aeebb5c3d2e7@mail.gmail.com> http://www.hoax-slayer.com/lion-midgets.html I have to say it's with some relief I note that I bought it, but it was a hoax. :) On 11/20/06, Styopa wrote: > > To check that this list is still alive, and relevant to the discussion > about nasty (normal) animals, I have to say that the result of this both > surprised me and didn't - if that makes any sense at all: > http://www.fmft.net/archives/BBC_NEWS.htm > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061120/e8cf3ac5/attachment.html From aelarsen at mac.com Tue Nov 21 09:55:33 2006 From: aelarsen at mac.com (Andrew Larsen) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:55:33 -0600 Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Discussion of RuneQuest rules In-Reply-To: <56e64e7a0611201352m6a8d5b38h1ddbfc1211e95bd5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: This turned out to be a fraudulent item. Someone planted the item on the internet to win a bet with a friend, and various news outlets picked it up. Andrew E. Larsen On 11/20/06 3:52 PM, "Styopa" wrote: > To check that this list is still alive, and relevant to the discussion about > nasty (normal) animals, I have to say that the result of this both surprised > me and didn't - if that makes any sense at all: > http://www.fmft.net/archives/BBC_NEWS.htm > > "Lion Mutilates 42 Midgets in Cambodian Ring-Fight > Spectators cheered as entire Cambodian Midget Fighting League squared off > against African Lion > > Tickets had been sold-out three weeks before the much anticipated fight, which > took place in the city of K?mp?ng Chhn?ng. > > The fight was slated when an angry fan contested Yang Sihamoni, President of > the CMFL, claiming that one lion could defeat his entire league of 42 > fighters. > > Sihamoni takes great pride in the league he helped create, as was conveyed in > his recent advertising campaign for the CMFL that stated his midgets will "... > take on anything; man, beast, or machine." > > This campaign is believed to be what sparked the undisclosed fan to challenge > the entire league to fight a lion; a challenge that Sihamoni readily accepted. > > An African Lion (Panthera Leo) was shipped to centrally located K?mp?ng > Chhn?ng especially for the event, which took place last Saturday, April 30, > 2005 in the city's coliseum. > > The Cambodian Government allowed the fight to take place, under the condition > that they receive a 50% commission on each ticket sold, and that no cameras > would be allowed in the arena. > > The fight was called in only 12 minutes, after which 28 fighters were declared > dead, while the other 14 suffered severe injuries including broken bones and > lost limbs, rendering them unable to fight back. > > Sihamoni was quoted before the fight stating that he felt since his fighters > out-numbered the lion 42 to 1, that they "? could out-wit and out-muscle > [it]." > > Unfortunately, he was wrong." > > > 12 minutes. Holy god. I hope the lion at least won his freedom? > > > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061120/27f15854/attachment.html From styopa1 at gmail.com Tue Nov 21 10:25:29 2006 From: styopa1 at gmail.com (Styopa) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:25:29 -0600 Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Discussion of RuneQuest rules In-Reply-To: References: <56e64e7a0611201352m6a8d5b38h1ddbfc1211e95bd5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <56e64e7a0611201525x161c2626o1a08b67712c53f53@mail.gmail.com> Ah, but the question remains: how would the RQ rules resolve it? Lion? or Midgets? 40 unarmed, not-particularly-combat-trained midgets would, I think, be cut to ribbons by the lion. Anyone willing to play it out? Frankly I think 40 non midget, normal people would have a very, very hard time with a lion, mainly because they wouldn't be organized (quickly) enough to take advantage of their numbers, and the first dozen or so, at least, would essentially have to expect their efforts would be suicidal on behalf of the rest. On 11/20/06, Andrew Larsen wrote: > > This turned out to be a fraudulent item. Someone planted the item on the > internet to win a bet with a friend, and various news outlets picked it up. > > Andrew E. Larsen > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061120/dd096b28/attachment.html From lorgryt at comcast.net Tue Nov 21 10:57:15 2006 From: lorgryt at comcast.net (Bo Whitten) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:57:15 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Discussion of RuneQuest rules In-Reply-To: <56e64e7a0611201525x161c2626o1a08b67712c53f53@mail.gmail.co m> References: <56e64e7a0611201352m6a8d5b38h1ddbfc1211e95bd5@mail.gmail.com> <56e64e7a0611201525x161c2626o1a08b67712c53f53@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20061120155337.023afd90@comcast.net> At 03:25 PM 11/20/2006, you wrote: >Ah, but the question remains: how would the RQ rules resolve it? > >Lion? > >or Midgets? > >40 unarmed, not-particularly-combat-trained midgets would, I think, be cut to ribbons by the lion. Anyone willing to play it out? > >Frankly I think 40 non midget, normal people would have a very, very hard time with a lion, mainly because they wouldn't be organized (quickly) enough to take advantage of their numbers, and the first dozen or so, at least, would essentially have to expect their efforts would be suicidal on behalf of the rest. Group Tactics would prevail, even if untrained and unarmed I think 40 midgets could grapple the lion long enough to suffocate it. I think half would die, but I still think after almost 30 years of running the game that the basic fight with 40 would prove to much for the lion. I think one well armed Duck could take it too! LOL "All Hail Quackwad!" Bo From lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au Tue Nov 21 12:12:33 2006 From: lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au (Lev Lafayette) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:12:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Discussion of RuneQuest rules In-Reply-To: <56e64e7a0611201525x161c2626o1a08b67712c53f53@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <501870.63438.qm@web33510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Lets see... At best, ten would be able to attack simultaneously, (front, front-left, front-right, left, right, left-flank, right-flank, rear with perhaps two making a flying leap onto it's back to try to weigh it down?. Assume that these midgets are SIZ 6, STR 8 (which seems fair), have 8 hit points, and do 1d3 per attack at 15% and no armour. We can also assume that they are insane and don't have to make a POW*1 check to engage in such an action. Assume the lion has STR 29, 19 total hit points, 2 point fur, and does 1d8+2d6 damage (claw) at 62% and 1d10+2d6 bite three strike ranks later at 52%. I count that on average that at least one midget per round will go down very permanently. Three midgets every two rounds will hit, and one of those will do a point of damage. On average the lion will win. I am quite nuts to have actually checked this. All the best, Lev --- Styopa wrote: > Ah, but the question remains: how would the RQ rules > resolve it? > > Lion? > > or Midgets? > > 40 unarmed, not-particularly-combat-trained midgets > would, I think, be cut > to ribbons by the lion. Anyone willing to play it > out? > > Frankly I think 40 non midget, normal people would > have a very, very hard > time with a lion, mainly because they wouldn't be > organized (quickly) enough > to take advantage of their numbers, and the first > dozen or so, at least, > would essentially have to expect their efforts would > be suicidal on behalf > of the rest. > > > On 11/20/06, Andrew Larsen wrote: > > > > This turned out to be a fraudulent item. Someone > planted the item on the > > internet to win a bet with a friend, and various > news outlets picked it up. > > > > Andrew E. Larsen > > > > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sponsored Link Online degrees - find the right program to advance your career. Www.nextag.com From aescleal at btinternet.com Tue Nov 21 17:02:19 2006 From: aescleal at btinternet.com (Ashley Munday) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 06:02:19 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Discussion of RuneQuest rules In-Reply-To: <501870.63438.qm@web33510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20061121060223.3986.qmail@web86105.mail.ird.yahoo.com> But how about Elite Cambodian Fighting Midgets though? If there's ever something that needs a narrativist RPG, this is it... Cheers, Ash --- Lev Lafayette wrote: > > Lets see... > > At best, ten would be able to attack simultaneously, > (front, front-left, front-right, left, right, > left-flank, right-flank, rear with perhaps two > making > a flying leap onto it's back to try to weigh it > down?. > > Assume that these midgets are SIZ 6, STR 8 (which > seems fair), have 8 hit points, and do 1d3 per > attack > at 15% and no armour. We can also assume that they > are > insane and don't have to make a POW*1 check to > engage > in such an action. > > Assume the lion has STR 29, 19 total hit points, 2 > point fur, and does 1d8+2d6 damage (claw) at 62% and > 1d10+2d6 bite three strike ranks later at 52%. > > I count that on average that at least one midget per > round will go down very permanently. Three midgets > every two rounds will hit, and one of those will do > a > point of damage. On average the lion will win. > > I am quite nuts to have actually checked this. > > All the best, > > > Lev > > --- Styopa wrote: > > > Ah, but the question remains: how would the RQ > rules > > resolve it? > > > > Lion? > > > > or Midgets? > > > > 40 unarmed, not-particularly-combat-trained > midgets > > would, I think, be cut > > to ribbons by the lion. Anyone willing to play it > > out? > > > > Frankly I think 40 non midget, normal people would > > have a very, very hard > > time with a lion, mainly because they wouldn't be > > organized (quickly) enough > > to take advantage of their numbers, and the first > > dozen or so, at least, > > would essentially have to expect their efforts > would > > be suicidal on behalf > > of the rest. > > > > > > On 11/20/06, Andrew Larsen > wrote: > > > > > > This turned out to be a fraudulent item. > Someone > > planted the item on the > > > internet to win a bet with a friend, and various > > news outlets picked it up. > > > > > > Andrew E. Larsen > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > RQ-Rules mailing list > > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Sponsored Link > > Online degrees - find the right program to advance > your career. > Www.nextag.com > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > From steve at perrinworlds.com Tue Nov 21 18:15:32 2006 From: steve at perrinworlds.com (Steve Perrin) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 23:15:32 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Discussion of RuneQuest rules References: <56e64e7a0611201352m6a8d5b38h1ddbfc1211e95bd5@mail.gmail.com> <56e64e7a0611201525x161c2626o1a08b67712c53f53@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <004901c70d3c$d4d29d80$a4407442@chaosce4015e22> I was told many years ago that a man could win a fight with a mountain lion (American), a mountain lion could win a fight with an African leopard, and a leopard would kill a man every time. No idea if that has any basis in reality. Steve Perrin, repository of oddball stuff ----- Original Message ----- From: Styopa To: Discussion of RuneQuest rules. Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Re: Discussion of RuneQuest rules Ah, but the question remains: how would the RQ rules resolve it? Lion? or Midgets? 40 unarmed, not-particularly-combat-trained midgets would, I think, be cut to ribbons by the lion. Anyone willing to play it out? Frankly I think 40 non midget, normal people would have a very, very hard time with a lion, mainly because they wouldn't be organized (quickly) enough to take advantage of their numbers, and the first dozen or so, at least, would essentially have to expect their efforts would be suicidal on behalf of the rest. On 11/20/06, Andrew Larsen wrote: This turned out to be a fraudulent item. Someone planted the item on the internet to win a bet with a friend, and various news outlets picked it up. Andrew E. Larsen ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ RQ-Rules mailing list RQ-Rules at crashbox.com http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061120/7b855d1e/attachment.html From steve at perrinworlds.com Tue Nov 21 18:18:34 2006 From: steve at perrinworlds.com (Steve Perrin) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 23:18:34 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Discussion of RuneQuest rules References: <501870.63438.qm@web33510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006301c70d3d$414d9c80$a4407442@chaosce4015e22> Keep in mind that if these are martial arts trained midgets, then they can double their open hand damage to 2D3 (I'd do that differently these days, but I think that's the RQ3 ruling). I am NOT going to figure out what difference that makes, but I'm sure someone will. Steve Perrin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lev Lafayette" To: "Discussion of RuneQuest rules." Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 5:12 PM Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Re: Discussion of RuneQuest rules > > Lets see... > > At best, ten would be able to attack simultaneously, > (front, front-left, front-right, left, right, > left-flank, right-flank, rear with perhaps two making > a flying leap onto it's back to try to weigh it down?. > > Assume that these midgets are SIZ 6, STR 8 (which > seems fair), have 8 hit points, and do 1d3 per attack > at 15% and no armour. We can also assume that they are > insane and don't have to make a POW*1 check to engage > in such an action. > > Assume the lion has STR 29, 19 total hit points, 2 > point fur, and does 1d8+2d6 damage (claw) at 62% and > 1d10+2d6 bite three strike ranks later at 52%. > > I count that on average that at least one midget per > round will go down very permanently. Three midgets > every two rounds will hit, and one of those will do a > point of damage. On average the lion will win. > > I am quite nuts to have actually checked this. > > All the best, > > > Lev > > --- Styopa wrote: > >> Ah, but the question remains: how would the RQ rules >> resolve it? >> >> Lion? >> >> or Midgets? >> >> 40 unarmed, not-particularly-combat-trained midgets >> would, I think, be cut >> to ribbons by the lion. Anyone willing to play it >> out? >> >> Frankly I think 40 non midget, normal people would >> have a very, very hard >> time with a lion, mainly because they wouldn't be >> organized (quickly) enough >> to take advantage of their numbers, and the first >> dozen or so, at least, >> would essentially have to expect their efforts would >> be suicidal on behalf >> of the rest. >> >> >> On 11/20/06, Andrew Larsen wrote: >> > >> > This turned out to be a fraudulent item. Someone >> planted the item on the >> > internet to win a bet with a friend, and various >> news outlets picked it up. >> > >> > Andrew E. Larsen >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> RQ-Rules mailing list >> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com >> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules >> > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Sponsored Link > > Online degrees - find the right program to advance your career. > Www.nextag.com > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > From soltakss at yahoo.com Tue Nov 21 22:36:41 2006 From: soltakss at yahoo.com (Simon Phipp) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:36:41 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Rq-rules] *** JUNK MAIL ***Re: Lions and Midgets In-Reply-To: <20061120235803.307D3F4FE94@mini.thinbits.net> Message-ID: <20061121113641.44917.qmail@web51006.mail.yahoo.com> Styopa: > Ah, but the question remains: how would the RQ rules resolve it? > > Lion? > > or Midgets? It depends on which rules are being used. Actually, working through it, the midgets should win in more than half of such contests. > 40 unarmed, not-particularly-combat-trained midgets would, I think, be cut > to ribbons by the lion. Anyone willing to play it out? In RQ3, the midgets would have a 1D3-1D4 Fist (or perhaps 1D3 if they were strong midgets) and a 1D6-1D4/1D6 kick, which would probably not get through the lion's skin. But, there are 40 of them and if they bundled the lion all together, then one of them will probably critical each round. The lion takes 3 out per round (Claw/Claw/Bite) assuming they don;t dodge out of the way but takes one wound per round, it takes him 13 rounds to beat them all, but has taken 13-26 HPs and might die on total hits, or have his innards beaten to a pulp. So, the lion might win, but on balance the midgets will. In RQM, the midgets use a Precise Attack at -40% and ignore armour, even if they are left with 5% attack chance then 40 midgets should still score 2 hits per round ignoring armour and the lion is toast. They can also dodge out of the way and parry, using their 2 defensive actions. So, the lion would be worn down eventually and I would put my money on the midgets. > Frankly I think 40 non midget, normal people would have a very, very hard > time with a lion, mainly because they wouldn't be organized (quickly) enough > to take advantage of their numbers, and the first dozen or so, at least, > would essentially have to expect their efforts would be suicidal on behalf > of the rest. If the midgets ran away and fought in small groups the lion would win. Their only really effective tactic is to bundle the lion all together, allowing all of them to attack as the lion is large and they are small, sacrificing most of them in the hope that the lion is eventually killed. Of course, they could hope to have an arm or leg torn off, that way they have taken a hit for the group and survived to tell their grand-midgets about it. That's how we used to kill big monsters in RQ2/3 - we'd attack en masse and hope for a "Natural Defense" roll of a non-vital location, heal it up and then go at it again, it normally worked. Bo Whitten: > Group Tactics would prevail, even if untrained and unarmed I think 40 midgets could grapple the lion long enough to > suffocate it. I think half would die, but I still think after almost 30 years of running the game that the basic fight with 40 > would prove to much for the lion. I think one well armed Duck could take it too! LOL "All Hail Quackwad!" Superior numbers normally win, in my experience, if they all attack at once. If the lion had healing or magical armour then the lion would probably win. The Duck would win if it got a good blow in first and managed to dodge all the lion's attacks. If the lion hit first then it has 2 claw attacks simultaneously, followed by a bite. The first would be parried, the next ignored and the bite would be a freebie. I would guess that a lion would be able to hurt the duck on each blow, so it would take 2-3 wounds and do 1 wound in return. On average, I would favour the lion. A Sword Drake would be better, though, as wopuld any duck with spells. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061121/dfd80098/attachment.html From styopa1 at gmail.com Wed Nov 22 04:59:43 2006 From: styopa1 at gmail.com (Styopa) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 11:59:43 -0600 Subject: [Rq-rules] *** JUNK MAIL ***Re: Lions and Midgets In-Reply-To: <20061121113641.44917.qmail@web51006.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20061120235803.307D3F4FE94@mini.thinbits.net> <20061121113641.44917.qmail@web51006.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <56e64e7a0611210959je55c7c6y9f7c3f243c886196@mail.gmail.com> I think the question revolves entirely around the number able to engage the lion. Yes, 40 people (even small ones) swinging, kicking, and biting would eventually drag the lion down. But the lion's got a move of at LEAST 5, the midgets 2. That means that, even in a little roofed circus ring-cage, the lion's going to attack whom he wants, when he wants and doesn't have to stick around for the meal (that comes later). Put it in a coliseum and the midgets have utterly NO chance. Circle, (and assuming none of the midgets gets left behind the pack, which would be immediate suicide), pounce, rend, leap clear....rinse, repeat. Each lunge killing at least 2 or 3, perhaps more. On 11/21/06, Simon Phipp wrote: > > Styopa: > > Ah, but the question remains: how would the RQ rules resolve it? > > > > Lion? > > > > or Midgets? > It depends on which rules are being used. Actually, working through it, > the midgets should win in more than half of such contests. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061121/6fe5385e/attachment.html From lorgryt at comcast.net Wed Nov 22 07:48:52 2006 From: lorgryt at comcast.net (Bo Whitten) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:48:52 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Discussion of RuneQuest rules In-Reply-To: <501870.63438.qm@web33510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <56e64e7a0611201525x161c2626o1a08b67712c53f53@mail.gmail.com> <501870.63438.qm@web33510.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20061121124746.024dc440@comcast.net> At 05:12 PM 11/20/2006, you wrote: >I count that on average that at least one midget per >round will go down very permanently. Three midgets >every two rounds will hit, and one of those will do a >point of damage. On average the lion will win. Again... my assessment was based on a group grapple and smother tactic. 10 to 15 rounds in the lion is dead from suffocation... and so are 25 midgets! LOL Bo From rog_benham at hotmail.com Wed Nov 22 09:10:22 2006 From: rog_benham at hotmail.com (Roger Benham) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 22:10:22 +0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] *** JUNK MAIL ***Re: Lions and Midgets In-Reply-To: <56e64e7a0611210959je55c7c6y9f7c3f243c886196@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061121/6fdd081a/attachment.html From tcantine at incentre.net Wed Nov 22 16:32:24 2006 From: tcantine at incentre.net (Tom Cantine) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 22:32:24 -0700 Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Discussion of RuneQuest rules In-Reply-To: <004901c70d3c$d4d29d80$a4407442@chaosce4015e22> References: <56e64e7a0611201352m6a8d5b38h1ddbfc1211e95bd5@mail.gmail.com> <56e64e7a0611201525x161c2626o1a08b67712c53f53@mail.gmail.com> <004901c70d3c$d4d29d80$a4407442@chaosce4015e22> Message-ID: Not long ago, a man DID win a fight with a mountain lion. A retired fellow was out for a walk, and when a cougar pounced on him, he stabbed it to death with his Swiss Army knife. However, he and other observers noted that the cougar looked to be in very poor shape, hungry and desperate. In contrast, another mountain lion successfully killed a jogger about a year ago. She (the jogger) lived not far from here, although I never met her myself. On 21-Nov-06, at 12:15 AM, Steve Perrin wrote: > I was told many years ago that a man could win a fight with a mountain > lion (American), a mountain lion could win a fight with an African > leopard, and a leopard would kill a man every time. > ? > No idea if that has any basis in reality. > ? > Steve Perrin, repository of oddball stuff > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Styopa > To: Discussion of RuneQuest rules. > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 3:25 PM > Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Re: Discussion of RuneQuest rules > > Ah, but the question remains: how would the RQ rules resolve it? > > Lion? > > or Midgets? > > 40 unarmed, not-particularly-combat-trained midgets would, I think, be > cut to ribbons by the lion. Anyone willing to play it out? > > Frankly I think 40 non midget, normal people would have a very, very > hard time with a lion, mainly because they wouldn't be organized > (quickly) enough to take advantage of their numbers, and the first > dozen or so, at least, would essentially have to expect their efforts > would be suicidal on behalf of the rest. > > > > On 11/20/06, Andrew Larsen wrote: > This turned out to be a fraudulent item. ?Someone planted the item on > the internet to win a bet with a friend, and various news outlets > picked it up. > > Andrew E. Larsen > > > > > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 3289 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061121/1329a9af/attachment.bin From lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au Wed Nov 22 21:49:05 2006 From: lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au (Lev Lafayette) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 02:49:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Lions and Midgets In-Reply-To: <20061121113641.44917.qmail@web51006.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <876867.97595.qm@web33515.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Simon Phipp wrote: > Styopa: > > > Ah, but the question remains: how would the RQ > rules resolve it? > > > > Lion? > > > > or Midgets? > > It depends on which rules are being used. > Actually, working through it, the midgets should win > in more than half of such contests. > > > 40 unarmed, not-particularly-combat-trained > midgets would, I think, be cut > > to ribbons by the lion. Anyone willing to play it > out? > > In RQ3, the midgets would have a 1D3-1D4 Fist (or > perhaps 1D3 if they were strong midgets) and a > 1D6-1D4/1D6 kick, which would probably not get > through the lion's skin. But, there are 40 of them > and if they bundled the lion all together, then one > of them will probably critical each round. Not with a 15% base chance to hit. > The lion > takes 3 out per round (Claw/Claw/Bite) Two. A lion gets two attacks per round (claw/bite). ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sponsored Link Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510k for $1,698/mo. Calculate new payment! www.LowerMyBills.com/lre From stolenbjorn at hotmail.com Thu Nov 23 04:28:19 2006 From: stolenbjorn at hotmail.com (Bjorn Stolen) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 17:28:19 +0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Discussion of RuneQuest rules In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061120155337.023afd90@comcast.net> Message-ID: When my evil plan of having my players beeing rounded up by the Lunars and shipped to a major city to fight in a coloseum this fight will be fought; that's for certain! I allso remember a Willbour Smith book, where some hundred africans kills a hippopotamus in water with their bare hands... >From: Bo Whitten >Reply-To: "Discussion of RuneQuest rules." >To: "Discussion of RuneQuest rules." >Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Re: Discussion of RuneQuest rules >Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:57:15 -0800 > >At 03:25 PM 11/20/2006, you wrote: > >Ah, but the question remains: how would the RQ rules resolve it? > > > >Lion? > > > >or Midgets? > > > >40 unarmed, not-particularly-combat-trained midgets would, I think, be >cut to ribbons by the lion. Anyone willing to play it out? > > > >Frankly I think 40 non midget, normal people would have a very, very hard >time with a lion, mainly because they wouldn't be organized (quickly) >enough to take advantage of their numbers, and the first dozen or so, at >least, would essentially have to expect their efforts would be suicidal on >behalf of the rest. > >Group Tactics would prevail, even if untrained and unarmed I think 40 >midgets could grapple the lion long enough to suffocate it. I think half >would die, but I still think after almost 30 years of running the game that >the basic fight with 40 would prove to much for the lion. I think one well >armed Duck could take it too! LOL "All Hail Quackwad!" > >Bo > > > >_______________________________________________ >RQ-Rules mailing list >RQ-Rules at crashbox.com >http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger overalt med WebMessenger http://webmessenger.msn.com/?mkt=nb-no - Den korteste veien mellom deg og dine venner From stolenbjorn at hotmail.com Thu Nov 23 04:51:32 2006 From: stolenbjorn at hotmail.com (Bjorn Stolen) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 17:51:32 +0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Discussion of RuneQuest rules In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've heard of a story (It's actually from Roald Dahl's self-biography) of a woman in Kenya beeing "napped" by a male lion. She was grabbed by the head and dragged some hundred meters. Her husband and other servants in the building followed the lion and shouted and yelled, and luckily the lion let go... He explained that it's not in a lions nature to kill humans. A lion specializes in killing cattle-like animals, and gets confused if encountering a slim, shouting, flailing human. A lion can no doubt kill a human like that, but in order to make realistic simulation, one have to take the lions psychology into account. I've heard that there are two animals in Africa that kills more people than people kill them, and that is the hippo and the leopard. There are 2 reasons why the leopard is 100 times more dangerous to humans than lions, despite the smaller size (according to my sources that I cannot remember): A: The leopard specialises in huntning primates that live in packs, and have therefore specialized in tactics where the survivalchanses for the leopard is maximalized. By darting into a pack, grabbing the head with the forepaws, then ripping open the guts with one kick (the one kittens do on yarn-balls), then dash towards the next. I've read about a hunting party that was ambushed by a leopard in high grass. Before anybody got a time to compose themselves, the first one was killed. The remaining two got time to rais the guns, but did not get time to fire a single shot before the second hunter was lying there with his gut open. B: The leopard is adapting to african suburbs (like the racoon and brown bear in north america). Here they prey on stray dogs and other domestic animals, and are much more exposed to potential human prey. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger overalt med WebMessenger http://webmessenger.msn.com/?mkt=nb-no - Den korteste veien mellom deg og dine venner From IQuinn at surewest.net Thu Nov 23 04:57:21 2006 From: IQuinn at surewest.net (Robert Hoffman) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 09:57:21 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] Orc Campaign Message-ID: <001401c70e5f$b001abd0$6401a8c0@QUINNLAND> Stepping away from the midgets for a moment I thought I'd seek some suggestions for a new campaign. To give my players a break from the norm they have all created orc characters. Their previous adventure actually had them in the role as representatives of a trade house sent to explore a newly discovered (actually rediscovered) island that the Lunars only recently opened to the public. On this island they discovered a large population of orcs who were trying to deal with the new arrivals; a task made more difficult by deceptive Lunar diplomacy. Anyway the tables are turned now, and the party is starting off in the heart of the orc territory at a safe distance from the bordering humans and the politics involved (for the moment). All that said, I'm looking for suggestions on how to make the orc experience feel distinctly different to the players. Any flavor elements, from cultural / ritual to changes in play mechanics that would reinforce the non-human element. The easy temptation is the stereotypical World of Warcraft type orc but anything I can add above and beyond would be worthwhile. Cheers, Bert -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061122/e84eb52a/attachment.html From styopa1 at gmail.com Thu Nov 23 05:46:33 2006 From: styopa1 at gmail.com (Styopa) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 12:46:33 -0600 Subject: [Rq-rules] Orc Campaign In-Reply-To: <001401c70e5f$b001abd0$6401a8c0@QUINNLAND> References: <001401c70e5f$b001abd0$6401a8c0@QUINNLAND> Message-ID: <56e64e7a0611221046m7f452ce7kc19c0c1a8afe1c03@mail.gmail.com> It sounds like your orcs are already a major step away from 'canonical' Tolkienesque orcs, in that we're talking about an actual society. Where are they technologically? From the brief description, we can probably assume a sedentary society, with subsistence agriculture, still significant food inputs from hunting/gathering - essentially sub-Orlanthi. Personally, the first thing that comes to mind is more of a Irishlike anti-urban twist. Nothing more significant civically than family groupings, in fact they might not even have roads but instead merely paths where most of the inter-community communication and trade is carried by itinerant peddlers. Draft animals, wheels might be unknown...maybe they don't like the wheel because a mythic issue against the Sun? Visitors please leave roundshields behind.... Make those peddlers typically female for a twist. Matriarchy might echo any knowledge the players have of Uz (not sure where taxonomically your Orcs come from). No such things as 'towns' or even villages, families live in communal longhouses (one for males and one for females/young? or put the young with the males?) or in steads of only a handful of buildings. These steads are scattered around the extremely rough country, with no apparent macro-government? Or is there really some other organization that is simply not obvious? Just top-of-the-head stuff. On 11/22/06, Robert Hoffman wrote: > > > All that said, I'm looking for suggestions on how to make the orc > experience feel distinctly different to the players. Any flavor elements, > from cultural / ritual to changes in play mechanics that would reinforce the > non-human element. The easy temptation is the stereotypical World of > Warcraft type orc but anything I can add above and beyond would be > worthwhile. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061122/61d3fab2/attachment.html From lorgryt at comcast.net Thu Nov 23 07:47:47 2006 From: lorgryt at comcast.net (Bo Whitten) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 12:47:47 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] Orc Campaign In-Reply-To: <001401c70e5f$b001abd0$6401a8c0@QUINNLAND> References: <001401c70e5f$b001abd0$6401a8c0@QUINNLAND> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20061122123956.024ea2e0@comcast.net> This description makes me think Cortez and the Aztecs. Maybe you can borrow from them. Ball Game a la Orc might be nice. Start the story in media res by having some or all on a team for Ball Game (easy rule system... melee basketball with a point/no point system, and start the game in the last half toward the end with a score of 15 to 14 (players of course) and a final score of 20 ending the game. Maybe they are worshiping a non-standard god due to the isolation... maybe Yelm or Lodril. Feather's may play a big part in the wardrobe of the culture, wealthy folks can wear more. Heros and great warriors wear masks in public. (could lead to an adventure later where Lunars are using this quirk to get a spy into the city disguised as warrior of fame. Choose a food as a single main staple (like corn was to the Aztec) and let that be something never seen in the rest of Glorantha (local Grain Goddess). Maybe the use odd instruments, or maybe they forswear music except in Ritual use. Bo At 09:57 AM 11/22/2006, you wrote: >Stepping away from the midgets for a moment I thought I?d seek some suggestions for a new campaign. To give my players a break from the norm they have all created orc characters. Their previous adventure actually had them in the role as representatives of a trade house sent to explore a newly discovered (actually rediscovered) island that the Lunars only recently opened to the public. On this island they discovered a large population of orcs who were trying to deal with the new arrivals; a task made more difficult by deceptive Lunar diplomacy. Anyway the tables are turned now, and the party is starting off in the heart of the orc territory at a safe distance from the bordering humans and the politics involved (for the moment). > >All that said, I?m looking for suggestions on how to make the orc experience feel distinctly different to the players. Any flavor elements, from cultural / ritual to changes in play mechanics that would reinforce the non-human element. The easy temptation is the stereotypical World of Warcraft type orc but anything I can add above and beyond would be worthwhile. > >Cheers, >Bert >_______________________________________________ >RQ-Rules mailing list >RQ-Rules at crashbox.com >http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules From lorgryt at comcast.net Thu Nov 23 07:51:56 2006 From: lorgryt at comcast.net (Bo Whitten) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 12:51:56 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] Skill Info: Utuma In-Reply-To: <56e64e7a0611221046m7f452ce7kc19c0c1a8afe1c03@mail.gmail.co m> References: <001401c70e5f$b001abd0$6401a8c0@QUINNLAND> <56e64e7a0611221046m7f452ce7kc19c0c1a8afe1c03@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20061122124933.024ebe78@comcast.net> Hello all, I was going through Glorantha.Info and found a list of published skills. While most are either obvious or easily discernable this one escapes me: Utuma. It is from Wyrm's Footnotes #14, which I do not have. Does anyone know what this is and what it relates to? Thanks for the help, Bo From joemills at columbus.rr.com Thu Nov 23 08:02:50 2006 From: joemills at columbus.rr.com (Joe Mills) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:02:50 -0500 Subject: [Rq-rules] Skill Info: Utuma In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061122124933.024ebe78@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000001c70e79$921b1ab0$0201a8c0@laptop2> >From WF #14, p.24. "Utmua - ritual suicide committed only for the most serious offenses against culture or class. This is considered the last honorable way to retire from very dishonorable circumstances. A successful skill roll means that the dragonewt has killed himself and has destroyed all vital parts and the skin which the human races find very valuable. A missed roll means that the dragonewt has killed himself but failed to destroy the vital parts. A fumbled roll means that the dragonewt did not kill himself and has suffered the final most humiliating dishonor of all." -- Joe From joemills at columbus.rr.com Thu Nov 23 08:04:21 2006 From: joemills at columbus.rr.com (Joe Mills) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:04:21 -0500 Subject: [Rq-rules] Utuma In-Reply-To: <000001c70e79$921b1ab0$0201a8c0@laptop2> Message-ID: <000101c70e79$c9f2c230$0201a8c0@laptop2> Given the nature of dragonewts, I assume that there is an experience check for that, btw. -- Joe Subject: RE: [Rq-rules] Skill Info: Utuma >From WF #14, p.24. "Utmua - ritual suicide committed only for the most serious offenses against culture or class. This is considered the last honorable way to retire from very dishonorable circumstances. A successful skill roll means that the dragonewt has killed himself and has destroyed all vital parts and the skin which the human races find very valuable. A missed roll means that the dragonewt has killed himself but failed to destroy the vital parts. A fumbled roll means that the dragonewt did not kill himself and has suffered the final most humiliating dishonor of all." -- Joe From IQuinn at surewest.net Thu Nov 23 08:10:24 2006 From: IQuinn at surewest.net (Robert Hoffman) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 13:10:24 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] Utuma In-Reply-To: <000101c70e79$c9f2c230$0201a8c0@laptop2> Message-ID: <004e01c70e7a$a50118e0$6401a8c0@QUINNLAND> Does that imply that dragonewts are absolved of all past dishonor in their next life cycle? -----Original Message----- From: rq-rules-bounces at crashbox.com [mailto:rq-rules-bounces at crashbox.com] On Behalf Of Joe Mills Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 1:04 PM To: 'Discussion of RuneQuest rules.' Subject: [Rq-rules] Utuma Given the nature of dragonewts, I assume that there is an experience check for that, btw. -- Joe Subject: RE: [Rq-rules] Skill Info: Utuma >From WF #14, p.24. "Utmua - ritual suicide committed only for the most serious offenses against culture or class. This is considered the last honorable way to retire from very dishonorable circumstances. A successful skill roll means that the dragonewt has killed himself and has destroyed all vital parts and the skin which the human races find very valuable. A missed roll means that the dragonewt has killed himself but failed to destroy the vital parts. A fumbled roll means that the dragonewt did not kill himself and has suffered the final most humiliating dishonor of all." -- Joe _______________________________________________ RQ-Rules mailing list RQ-Rules at crashbox.com http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules From joemills at columbus.rr.com Thu Nov 23 08:22:10 2006 From: joemills at columbus.rr.com (Joe Mills) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:22:10 -0500 Subject: [Rq-rules] Utuma In-Reply-To: <004e01c70e7a$a50118e0$6401a8c0@QUINNLAND> Message-ID: <000201c70e7c$460e8a00$0201a8c0@laptop2> "Does that imply that dragonewts are absolved of all past dishonor in their next life cycle?" I think it would circumvent the consequences of the dishonor. I then quote from p. 21: "If a dragonewt dies dishonorably then he will remain dead a number of days, losing abilities as outlined in "Cults of Prax" for each day dead. Shamed dragonewts are thus stuck with stunted personalities and abilities which forever mark their failures unitl worked out over lifetimes...." Just in case you were wondering what could cause a dragonewt dishonor: ".... Dragonewt honor is determined by whether of not the dragonewt is responsible for his actions in that range of emotional experience and whether or not he failed to control himself." So -- by committing Utuma, the dragonewt returns to life immediately with no loss of abilities, which is the consequence of dying dishonorably. I think. -- Joe From lorgryt at comcast.net Thu Nov 23 08:59:03 2006 From: lorgryt at comcast.net (Bo Whitten) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 13:59:03 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] Skill Info: Utuma In-Reply-To: <000001c70e79$921b1ab0$0201a8c0@laptop2> References: <7.0.1.0.2.20061122124933.024ebe78@comcast.net> <000001c70e79$921b1ab0$0201a8c0@laptop2> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20061122135802.025d32c0@comcast.net> Thank you Joe. I remembered after I posted that it was related to dragonnewts, but could not remember if it was a weapon or not. Greatly appreciate the info, Bo At 01:02 PM 11/22/2006, you wrote: >>From WF #14, p.24. > >"Utmua - ritual suicide committed only for the most serious offenses against >culture or class. This is considered the last honorable way to retire from >very dishonorable circumstances. A successful skill roll means that the >dragonewt has killed himself and has destroyed all vital parts and the skin >which the human races find very valuable. A missed roll means that the >dragonewt has killed himself but failed to destroy the vital parts. A >fumbled roll means that the dragonewt did not kill himself and has suffered >the final most humiliating dishonor of all." > >-- Joe > >_______________________________________________ >RQ-Rules mailing list >RQ-Rules at crashbox.com >http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules From postmaster at runequest.za.org Thu Nov 23 18:02:42 2006 From: postmaster at runequest.za.org (postmaster at runequest.za.org) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 09:02:42 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Discussion of RuneQuest rules In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <22431.196.8.104.27.1164265362.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> Bjorn wrote: > I've heard of a story (It's actually from Roald Dahl's self-biography) of > a > woman in Kenya beeing "napped" by a male lion. She was grabbed by the head > and dragged some hundred meters. Her husband and other servants in the > building followed the lion and shouted and yelled, and luckily the lion > let > go... > Point 1 I tend to agree with, point 2 is absolute rubbish! I live in Africa (have lived on a plot some kilometers from town, in subusbs and now live in a small dorp(village) some kilometers from the nearest city). I have never seen or heard of a leopard prowling the suburbs. However, if you mean a rural village in the bush, then thats a differnet story. Suburbs however is extremely uncommon. There have been instances, with urban sprawl etc encroaching on a leopards terrotory, but these instances happen like once in ten years. The closest thinbg one is likley to get in the suburbs, specially the newer ones on the skirts of town is ferral cats and halfbreed cats (domestic cat corss ocalot/lynx) Tony From postmaster at runequest.za.org Thu Nov 23 18:38:54 2006 From: postmaster at runequest.za.org (postmaster at runequest.za.org) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 09:38:54 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Orc Campaign In-Reply-To: <001401c70e5f$b001abd0$6401a8c0@QUINNLAND> References: <001401c70e5f$b001abd0$6401a8c0@QUINNLAND> Message-ID: <12870.196.8.104.27.1164267534.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> > > All that said, I'm looking for suggestions on how to make the orc > experience > feel distinctly different to the players. Any flavor elements, from > cultural / ritual to changes in play mechanics that would reinforce the > non-human element. The easy temptation is the stereotypical World of > Warcraft type orc but anything I can add above and beyond would be > worthwhile. > > > Bert, I personally love orcs and love to play orcs. I have some work in propgress notes for my campaign world which may/may not be of use to you. I can mail them off list. Also have two short stroies I wrote with an orc protagonist. Contact me off list if you keen and I canb send to you. Some great background material if you/your players have time read Grunts by Mary Gentle and the Orcs Trilogy by Stan Nicholls (Bodyguard of ligntning, legion of thunder, warriors of the tempest). you can also download a short story with characters for that series from his website. I like to play orcs as very human in some ways and utterly alien in others. Not just your basic thick swine like cannon fodder, but people who value their own skin and while they can be good fighters, they are also pretty damned good at running away. They are complex creatures who do not necessarily have any beef with humans (IMO). I hate any idea of them being elf related. One very fun (for my group anyway) orc trait is boasting and we even made a communications skill for it. Its also just fun to role play it. Orcs can also be like bulls in china shops at times when they are placed in situatiosn that are foreign to them. Like kids in a candy store as well. They are traditionally equal or better than humans in phisiology and muscle, so for them to, in passing, just raid a human farm and take what they can has no moral qualms, after all they are stronger. Fair play in not an orc trait, if you are stgronger, you are better, simple. Hmm, also have a write up of orc stats and some bacjkground on my site www.runequest.za.org Hope this helps Tony From soltakss at yahoo.com Thu Nov 23 21:33:43 2006 From: soltakss at yahoo.com (Simon Phipp) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 10:33:43 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Lions and Midgets In-Reply-To: <20061122175149.324B0F6E35E@mini.thinbits.net> Message-ID: <733047.17676.qm@web51005.mail.yahoo.com> Lev Lafayette: >--- Simon Phipp wrote: >> The lion >> takes 3 out per round (Claw/Claw/Bite) > > Two. A lion gets two attacks per round (claw/bite). Really? We've always played Claw/Claw/Bite with the two claws hitting simultaneously followed by the Bite later on. It makes them fairly nasty opponents. See Ya Simon Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061123/614116d8/attachment.html From stolenbjorn at hotmail.com Thu Nov 23 21:44:25 2006 From: stolenbjorn at hotmail.com (Bjorn Stolen) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 10:44:25 +0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] A little more on lions: In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20061122124933.024ebe78@comcast.net> Message-ID: Check out this link "super swamp lions and murder lion" http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=392292&in_page_id=1766&in_a_source=&ito=1490 _________________________________________________________________ MSN Music http://music.msn.no Finn din favorittmusikk blant nesten 1 million l?ter From stolenbjorn at hotmail.com Thu Nov 23 21:48:43 2006 From: stolenbjorn at hotmail.com (Bjorn Stolen) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 10:48:43 +0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Discussion of RuneQuest rules In-Reply-To: <22431.196.8.104.27.1164265362.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> Message-ID: Good to be corrected by someone that actually knows this stuff, I live in norway, and my sources are dubious tabloid journalists and Willbour Smith (The Roald Dal-story is probably right, I think, or else he wouldn't write it in his self biography?) >From: postmaster at runequest.za.org >Reply-To: "Discussion of RuneQuest rules." >To: "Discussion of RuneQuest rules." >Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Re: Discussion of RuneQuest rules >Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 09:02:42 +0200 (SAST) > >Bjorn wrote: > > > I've heard of a story (It's actually from Roald Dahl's self-biography) >of > > a > > woman in Kenya beeing "napped" by a male lion. She was grabbed by the >head > > and dragged some hundred meters. Her husband and other servants in the > > building followed the lion and shouted and yelled, and luckily the lion > > let > > go... > > > >Point 1 I tend to agree with, point 2 is absolute rubbish! I live in >Africa (have lived on a plot some kilometers from town, in subusbs and now >live in a small dorp(village) some kilometers from the nearest city). I >have never seen or heard of a leopard prowling the suburbs. However, if >you mean a rural village in the bush, then thats a differnet story. >Suburbs however is extremely uncommon. There have been instances, with >urban sprawl etc encroaching on a leopards terrotory, but these instances >happen like once in ten years. > >The closest thinbg one is likley to get in the suburbs, specially the >newer ones on the skirts of town is ferral cats and halfbreed cats >(domestic cat corss ocalot/lynx) >Tony >_______________________________________________ >RQ-Rules mailing list >RQ-Rules at crashbox.com >http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules _________________________________________________________________ MSN Spaces http://spaces.msn.com/?mkt=nb-no Vis hvem du er og hva du vil From soltakss at yahoo.com Thu Nov 23 22:12:27 2006 From: soltakss at yahoo.com (Simon Phipp) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 11:12:27 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Rq-rules] *** JUNK MAIL ***Re: Orc Campaign/Utuma In-Reply-To: <20061122211051.6C62CF716F2@mini.thinbits.net> Message-ID: <20061123111227.33346.qmail@web51010.mail.yahoo.com> Robert Hoffman: > Stepping away from the midgets for a moment I thought I'd seek some > suggestions for a new campaign. To give my players a break from the norm > they have all created orc characters. Their previous adventure actually had > them in the role as representatives of a trade house sent to explore a newly > discovered (actually rediscovered) island that the Lunars only recently > opened to the public. On this island they discovered a large population of > orcs who were trying to deal with the new arrivals; a task made more > difficult by deceptive Lunar diplomacy. Anyway the tables are turned now, > and the party is starting off in the heart of the orc territory at a safe > distance from the bordering humans and the politics involved (for the > moment). Sounds like an interesting campaign. > All that said, I'm looking for suggestions on how to make the orc experience > feel distinctly different to the players. Any flavor elements, from > cultural / ritual to changes in play mechanics that would reinforce the > non-human element. The easy temptation is the stereotypical World of > Warcraft type orc but anything I can add above and beyond would be > worthwhile. What I would do first is to decide what Orc society is like, or particularly what the Orc society where the PCs come from is like. It's handy to deal with stereotypes for this. Is it tribal based? Most orc writeups I have seen have clans and tribes of orcs. Are orcs evil in your world? By evil, I mean are they nasty and cruel, do they kill people for no reason, do they enslave and befoul innocent human women? How do orcs relate to other people? Are there groups of half-orcs, half-goblins etc? How are orcs different to other people/species? So, the standard setup is something like this: orcs are brutal and nasty; they live in tribes where the strongest rule; they take captives and keep slaves; they breed with humans, goblins etc; they are good warriors in groups but are cowardly at heart. How far you move away from this is up to you, of course. What I would do is to quickly write up the main orc gods and work out how much of an influence they have on orcish society. Is the main god a god of war? Are there different gods worshipped in the tribe and in adventuring bands? How is orcish society organised beyond the tribal level? Is there a Great Dark Lord who nominally controls the orcs? How are orcs perceived by orcs from a different tribe? Are they captured and tortured? If you want orcish farmers, do they farm themselves or do they keep slaves to do the farming for them? Are orcs hunter/gatherers or hunter/raiders rather than farmers? Are there different types of orcs, roughty-toughty mountain orcs and namby-pamby farmer orcs in the lowlands? What kind of orcs are the PCs? Are they a mixture? Where did the orcs come from? Are they corrupted elves? Are they super-goblins? Are they both and something else as well? What if some of your orcs come from corrupted elves and some come from super-goblin stock, how would they interact? How would they deal with elves and goblins? How do orcish tribes work? Is leadership hereditary, are they ruled by the strongest where anyone can challenge for leadership positions, is there a clan council that rules them? Are there defined roles for women and men? Are women leaders and men shamans, or men leaders and women shamans, or both or neither? If you have leadership by the strongest, does that apply to adventuring bands? Can one of the PCs bully the rest to make himself leader? What if one clan has female leaders and one of the female PCs is from this clan, but a male is the leader, what would she think/do? Once you have worked these kind of things out, then you can say how it impacts on the PCs. Obviously, you don't need to go into great detail, perhaps a line for each. That should be enough to sketch out how orcs work. Then you can relate them to game play. Give the PCs orcish skills - Hunting, Tracking, Track by Smell, Torture, Endure Torture. Give them orcish spells. Give them orcish magic items - Tattoos, Shrunken Heads, Bone Piercings. Give them tribal taboos - Never Speak to an Elf, Never/Only Eat the Meat of an (Animal), Enemy of (Species) and so on. Give them orcish language and customs. Give every PC a random Custom from their tribe/clan. Introduce things in play that would perhaps shock the PCs. Get them to interact with another tribe of orcs and see how they react. Have some kind of sacrifice or random/casual act of cruelty to highlight that orcs are not human. See how orcs behave with other species. Do they treat goblins as slaves? If so, make that obvious and graphic. Have them bring in human slaves. Maybe have them eat other species after a hunting trip. But, don't fall into the trap of making them like Gloranthan Trolls - they are very different. Some of the troll gods might suit orcish society - Zorak Zoran and Black Sun are the obvious ones - but orcish society should be different from trollish ones. OK, so they have goblins not trollkin and often live in caves, but there the similarities end. Unless they don't in your campaign. of course. Also, don't make all orcs alike. Have mountain and valley orcs. Have civilised orcs who live in human cities and look down on the savage orcs. Have orcish towns and cities in the mountain valleys, but orcish tribes in the mountains and forests. Have female dominated and male dominated tribes. Have tribal warfare and raiding. Have a Dark Lord who wants to unite the tribes and tribes who don't want to be united. Have common enemies and common foes. Make some orcs shamanic, some divine and some sorcerous, or better still mix the formats but keep some tribes focussed on one type of magic. Have different orcish kingdoms, orcish tribes, orcish families and have them interact. Anyway, that's probably far too many ideas. Why don't you write the society up and post it somewhere? It would be an interesting read, I'm sure. Robert Hoffman: > Does that imply that dragonewts are absolved of all past dishonor in their > next life cycle? Yep. Utuma allows the dragonewt to die without dishonour. This prevents him backsliding or being reborn into an earlier or deviant stage. I would say that it also clears any past experience, so the dragonewt cannot progress to the next stage either. See Ya Simon --------------------------------- All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." - PC Magazine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061123/ad6c3705/attachment.html From lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au Thu Nov 23 22:49:56 2006 From: lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au (Lev Lafayette) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 03:49:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Lions and Midgets In-Reply-To: <733047.17676.qm@web51005.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <450157.95811.qm@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> --- Simon Phipp wrote: > Lev Lafayette: > >--- Simon Phipp wrote: > >> The lion > >> takes 3 out per round (Claw/Claw/Bite) > > > > Two. A lion gets two attacks per round > (claw/bite). > > Really? We've always played Claw/Claw/Bite with > the two claws hitting simultaneously followed by the > Bite later on. It makes them fairly nasty opponents. > Claw/Claw/Bite is a AD&D convention ;-) In RQ III the default is one claw at SR 5, one bite at SR 8 followed by a rake at SR 5 and another bite the next round at SR 8 if both hit. The rake (80%, 2d8+2d6) is pretty nasty... All the best, Lev ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited From postmaster at runequest.za.org Fri Nov 24 00:30:56 2006 From: postmaster at runequest.za.org (postmaster at runequest.za.org) Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 15:30:56 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Discussion of RuneQuest rules In-Reply-To: References: <22431.196.8.104.27.1164265362.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> Message-ID: <34548.196.8.104.27.1164288656.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> Yeah there are a lot of misconceptions out there. But yes, the lion thing was prob true. People do get eaten by lions here, in the large game reserves when trying to sneak over the border. Tony > Good to be corrected by someone that actually knows this stuff, I live in > norway, and my sources are dubious tabloid journalists and Willbour Smith > (The Roald Dal-story is probably right, I think, or else he wouldn't write > it in his self biography?) > > >>From: postmaster at runequest.za.org >>Reply-To: "Discussion of RuneQuest rules." >>To: "Discussion of RuneQuest rules." >>Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Re: Discussion of RuneQuest rules >>Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 09:02:42 +0200 (SAST) >> >>Bjorn wrote: >> >> > I've heard of a story (It's actually from Roald Dahl's self-biography) >>of >> > a >> > woman in Kenya beeing "napped" by a male lion. She was grabbed by the >>head >> > and dragged some hundred meters. Her husband and other servants in the >> > building followed the lion and shouted and yelled, and luckily the >> lion >> > let >> > go... >> > From gianni at basicrps.com Fri Nov 24 10:09:43 2006 From: gianni at basicrps.com (Gianni) Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 00:09:43 +0100 Subject: [Rq-rules] *** JUNK MAIL ***Re: Orc Campaign/Utuma Message-ID: <20061123231001.A83FAF818B8@mini.thinbits.net> Simon, This is a great post I'm gonna keep. Reminds me of my first ever AD&D2 campaign. There was a human kingdom that had conquered some orcish lands and had converted the Orcs there to the worship of the 'good' gods. One of the characters was a paladin and he was so disappointed when he got to that part of the country and saw that he just couldn't kill scores of orcs, contrary to what he was used to. Guess it also made him think (the player, not the character). Gianni From esoteric2723 at comcast.net Tue Nov 28 00:59:43 2006 From: esoteric2723 at comcast.net (Brad Furst) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 05:59:43 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Knockback and falling damage. In-Reply-To: <8445ABEF-1C6A-11DB-BB14-000D9334A9EA@incentre.net> References: <20060725154735.86587.qmail@web51009.mail.yahoo.com> <8445ABEF-1C6A-11DB-BB14-000D9334A9EA@incentre.net> Message-ID: <5D56F10A-8EB9-4F4C-98CE-99CD97BBA84C@comcast.net> I just stumbled onto this below in my archives. The velocity/momentum/ kinetic energy topic resurfaces routinely, doesn't it? The thing to remember about that square component is that it refers to measuring a fall proportional to the length of _time_ of falling. Since we parameterize falls proportional to _distance_, then _linear_ is the better choice. On Jul 25, 2006, at 10:49 PM, Tom Cantine wrote: > I worked out the following table of damage scales for impact at > various speeds, although I suppose I should expand it to take into > account the enormous amounts of knockback a giant can deliver. > > Damage Equivalent speed Typical situation > 1D3 1-2 m/SR Walking into wall; tripping over cat > 1D4 3-4 m/SR Running into wall; falling from 1 m > 1D6 5-6 m/SR Sprinting into wall; falling from 2-3 m. > 2D6 7-8 m/SR Trotting horse. > 3D6 9-10 m/SR Charging horse > > I based these values loosely on the falling damage rule, noting > that every 3 m of height adds a d6 of damage, and so I inferred > that damage is linear with kinetic energy. Actually, that seems > pretty reasonable, all other things being equal. > > However, it seems to me that knockback distance is a linear > function of velocity, not of kinetic energy (which is proportional > to the square of velocity). To fling someone 60m would require a > minimum velocity of about 45 m/s, which is about the speed one > would attain after falling about 100 m. So damage on landing should > be about 33d6. > > I don't think that damage should max out at 12d6, because the > entire body is hitting a solid surface, and while 12d6 is every bit > as lethal as 33d6, the degree of overkill is a useful indication of > how recognizable the residue will be. Brad Furst If you've seen one non-sequitur, then all the tea in china. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061127/e9e66fcd/attachment.html From tiggermb at verizon.net Wed Nov 29 05:01:24 2006 From: tiggermb at verizon.net (tiggermb at verizon.net) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:01:24 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Enhancing Divine Magic Message-ID: <17599968.6756891164736885821.JavaMail.root@vms061.mailsrvcs.net> I am sure this has been talked about before, but I figured I would bring up the following topic: When I look at the RQ III magic rules, sometimes I think ? ?Why would anyone want to use certain one use divine magic spells?? For Example, sacrificing one point of POW for 2 points of healing ONE TIME ONLY seems a poor trade when one considers that the Spirit Magic spell of the same ability can be used as long as one has the MP to spare. Does anyone allow initiates to have multiple use spells? I would think that tithing, prayer, and spell regeneration limitations (need to be at a temple) would be enough of a limitation on the power of Divine spells. I was thinking of allowing initiates multiple use spells, and having certain spells be ?Priest Only? like Worship, Excommunication, Sanctify, and some of the very ?Powerful? spells. I was just wondering what other?s thoughts on Divine magic have been, and how they have made it more appealing for characters to use in their campaigns From IQuinn at surewest.net Wed Nov 29 05:24:47 2006 From: IQuinn at surewest.net (Robert Hoffman) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:24:47 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] Enhancing Divine Magic In-Reply-To: <17599968.6756891164736885821.JavaMail.root@vms061.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <000c01c7131a$8355e370$6401a8c0@QUINNLAND> I agree completely; when using RQ3 character generation the players that roll divine magic for beginning characters feel gypped compared to the players who get a practical spirit spell. That in turn provides little motivation to sacrifice for these spells later on. Shouldn't these spells be more epic like Mass Heal (Heals all allied characters in 20' radius 4 points), or Lightning Storm (damages target plus 1D4 adjacent targets). These power should be erupting from the character with god like fury,... Bless Crop doesn't quite have that feel. -----Original Message----- From: rq-rules-bounces at crashbox.com [mailto:rq-rules-bounces at crashbox.com] On Behalf Of tiggermb at verizon.net Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 10:01 AM To: rq-rules at crashbox.com Subject: [Rq-rules] Enhancing Divine Magic I am sure this has been talked about before, but I figured I would bring up the following topic: When I look at the RQ III magic rules, sometimes I think - "Why would anyone want to use certain one use divine magic spells?" For Example, sacrificing one point of POW for 2 points of healing ONE TIME ONLY seems a poor trade when one considers that the Spirit Magic spell of the same ability can be used as long as one has the MP to spare. Does anyone allow initiates to have multiple use spells? I would think that tithing, prayer, and spell regeneration limitations (need to be at a temple) would be enough of a limitation on the power of Divine spells. I was thinking of allowing initiates multiple use spells, and having certain spells be "Priest Only" like Worship, Excommunication, Sanctify, and some of the very "Powerful" spells. I was just wondering what other's thoughts on Divine magic have been, and how they have made it more appealing for characters to use in their campaigns _______________________________________________ RQ-Rules mailing list RQ-Rules at crashbox.com http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules From jurrubin at gmail.com Wed Nov 29 05:26:27 2006 From: jurrubin at gmail.com (David Smart) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:26:27 -0600 Subject: [Rq-rules] Enhancing Divine Magic In-Reply-To: <17599968.6756891164736885821.JavaMail.root@vms061.mailsrvcs.net> References: <17599968.6756891164736885821.JavaMail.root@vms061.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <1c92296e0611281026t72e37d1fl273cbbe3ff9277ba@mail.gmail.com> I don't allow Initiates to have reusable spells but I've ported the concept of Alcolyte into my campaigns and it works pretty well. Other than that, all my players go with Spirit magic because you're right; it's much more useful for the cost. On 11/28/06, tiggermb at verizon.net wrote: > > I am sure this has been talked about before, but I figured I would bring > up the following topic: > > When I look at the RQ III magic rules, sometimes I think ? "Why would > anyone want to use certain one use divine magic spells?" For Example, > sacrificing one point of POW for 2 points of healing ONE TIME ONLY seems a > poor trade when one considers that the Spirit Magic spell of the same > ability can be used as long as one has the MP to spare. > > > Does anyone allow initiates to have multiple use spells? I would think > that tithing, prayer, and spell regeneration limitations (need to be at a > temple) would be enough of a limitation on the power of Divine spells. I was > thinking of allowing initiates multiple use spells, and having certain > spells be "Priest Only" like Worship, Excommunication, Sanctify, and some of > the very "Powerful" spells. > > I was just wondering what other's thoughts on Divine magic have been, and > how they have made it more appealing for characters to use in their > campaigns > > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061128/1c40fb72/attachment.html From bick10 at comcast.net Wed Nov 29 05:50:21 2006 From: bick10 at comcast.net (Jim Bickmeyer) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:50:21 +0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] Enhancing Divine Magic Message-ID: <112820061850.5522.456C84ED0004A242000015922207300793CFCE050C070D@comcast.net> I allow initiates to regain Divine spells on holy days. Whether they were low or high holy days don???t matter. The exception is Divine spells that state Non-Reusable. Priests and Rune Lords only need to worship at a holy site to regain reusable divine spells. If you want to increase the magic level, then allow the Non-Reusable to be renewed on holy days, or only the high holy day. As a wrinkle, the priest has to succeed in their Worship skill roll. Failure results in No renewed spells. You want to see an angry congregation? Have a Player Humakt priest fumble his worship roll. His service ended with drawn blades and a death challenge for the shrine and priesthood. Also, I added a bit more for critical and special Worship success. The god pays attention and rewards their flock. Special/Critical Worship success check at Temple. Priest ---- Worshiper --- Result Special + Normal = may sacrifice for any one of gods divine. Critical + Special = may sacrifice for any of gods or allies divine Critical + Critical = random non-reusable renewed or above, players choice. Shrines Priest ---- Worshiper --- Result Special + Normal = may sacrifice for one shrines divine spell. Critical + Special = may sacrifice for any of gods divine Critical + Critical = random non-reusable renewed or above, players choice. And yes, it did raise the magic level in my game. But then people used their divine more often and felt better for it. Jim Bickmeyer -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: > I am sure this has been talked about before, but I figured I would bring up the > following topic: > > When I look at the RQ III magic rules, sometimes I think ??? ???Why would anyone > want to use certain one use divine magic spells???? For Example, sacrificing one > point of POW for 2 points of healing ONE TIME ONLY seems a poor trade when one > considers that the Spirit Magic spell of the same ability can be used as long as > one has the MP to spare. > > > Does anyone allow initiates to have multiple use spells? I would think that > tithing, prayer, and spell regeneration limitations (need to be at a temple) > would be enough of a limitation on the power of Divine spells. I was thinking of > allowing initiates multiple use spells, and having certain spells be ???Priest > Only??? like Worship, Excommunication, Sanctify, and some of the very ???Powerful??? > spells. > > I was just wondering what other???s thoughts on Divine magic have been, and how > they have made it more appealing for characters to use in their campaigns From julian.lord at gmail.com Wed Nov 29 05:51:57 2006 From: julian.lord at gmail.com (Julian Lord) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:51:57 +0100 Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Lions Message-ID: <1e842f7f0611281051x40ff753cr47fb40872e8c0c99@mail.gmail.com> FWIW, I understand that Man's only natural predator was the Smilodon, but that we killed them all... We are too dangerous and scrawny for other animals' taste. Julian Lord -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061128/548f9763/attachment.html From julian.lord at gmail.com Wed Nov 29 06:02:00 2006 From: julian.lord at gmail.com (Julian Lord) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:02:00 +0100 Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: RQ-Rules Digest, Vol 14, Issue 12 In-Reply-To: <20061128182639.E4FCFFCA1B6@mini.thinbits.net> References: <20061128182639.E4FCFFCA1B6@mini.thinbits.net> Message-ID: <1e842f7f0611281102s3d39af9ck90f3f8eec0100a33@mail.gmail.com> Brad : I just stumbled onto this below in my archives. The velocity/momentum/ > kinetic energy topic resurfaces routinely, doesn't it? The thing to > remember about that square component is that it refers to measuring a > fall proportional to the length of _time_ of falling. Since we > parameterize falls proportional to _distance_, then _linear_ is the > better choice. > > > On Jul 25, 2006, at 10:49 PM, Tom Cantine wrote: > > > I worked out the following table of damage scales for impact at > > various speeds, although I suppose I should expand it to take into > > account the enormous amounts of knockback a giant can deliver. > > > > Damage Equivalent speed Typical situation > > 1D3 1-2 m/SR Walking into wall; > tripping over cat > > 1D4 3-4 m/SR Running into wall; falling > from 1 m > > 1D6 5-6 m/SR Sprinting into wall; > falling from 2-3 m. > > 2D6 7-8 m/SR Trotting horse. > > 3D6 9-10 m/SR Charging horse > > > > I based these values loosely on the falling damage rule, noting > > that every 3 m of height adds a d6 of damage, and so I inferred > > that damage is linear with kinetic energy. Actually, that seems > > pretty reasonable, all other things being equal. > > > > However, it seems to me that knockback distance is a linear > > function of velocity, not of kinetic energy (which is proportional > > to the square of velocity). To fling someone 60m would require a > > minimum velocity of about 45 m/s, which is about the speed one > > would attain after falling about 100 m. So damage on landing should > > be about 33d6. > > > > I don't think that damage should max out at 12d6, because the > > entire body is hitting a solid surface, and while 12d6 is every bit > > as lethal as 33d6, the degree of overkill is a useful indication of > > how recognizable the residue will be. > > > Brad Furst > If you've seen one non-sequitur, then all the tea in china. Brad, it's long been worked out that all RQ stats are actually logarithmic in nature, and that simple algebra is sufficient to compare the various forces against each other --- ie distance fallen/velocity has a similar structure as SIZ+CON/Hit Points The rules have been designed (or re-designed depending on your POV) to use the same logarithmic scale for all relevant forces, so that simple algebra can handle all scaling issues... :-) Julian Lord -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061128/eb73bd2a/attachment.html From carpgachair at yahoo.com Wed Nov 29 06:19:16 2006 From: carpgachair at yahoo.com (Paul Cardwell) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:19:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: RQ-Rules Digest, Vol 14, Issue 12 In-Reply-To: <1e842f7f0611281102s3d39af9ck90f3f8eec0100a33@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061128191916.55993.qmail@web31815.mail.mud.yahoo.com> But all that is a theoretical accelleration in a vacuum, and doesn't really apply to the real world. Remember how the long jump records got clobbered in the thin air of the Mexico City Olympics? Altitude (and air density) is a factor. The important thing is the sudden stop at the bottom. Air resistance affects terminal velocity. Accelleration does not go on forever, no matter what the falling distance is. In a drop from 500 feet, for instance, a mouse will scurry right off; a cat will be shaken a bit, but unharmed (but injured if the drop is below 30 feet because they don't have time to flatten into their own parachute); a dog will be injured; a human will be killed; and a horse will splatter. The distance and air density is the same, but the weight to air resistance is radically different because of the square-cube law. It can be approximated arithemetically, but an accurate formula will require more than simple algebra to take in all the factors. Paul Cardwell --- Julian Lord wrote: > Brad : > > I just stumbled onto this below in my archives. The > velocity/momentum/ > > kinetic energy topic resurfaces routinely, doesn't > it? The thing to > > remember about that square component is that it > refers to measuring a > > fall proportional to the length of _time_ of > falling. Since we > > parameterize falls proportional to _distance_, > then _linear_ is the > > better choice. > > > > > > On Jul 25, 2006, at 10:49 PM, Tom Cantine wrote: > > > > > I worked out the following table of damage > scales for impact at > > > various speeds, although I suppose I should > expand it to take into > > > account the enormous amounts of knockback a > giant can deliver. > > > > > > Damage Equivalent speed Typical > situation > > > 1D3 1-2 m/SR > Walking into wall; > > tripping over cat > > > 1D4 3-4 m/SR > Running into wall; falling > > from 1 m > > > 1D6 5-6 m/SR > Sprinting into wall; > > falling from 2-3 m. > > > 2D6 7-8 m/SR > Trotting horse. > > > 3D6 9-10 m/SR Charging > horse > > > > > > I based these values loosely on the falling > damage rule, noting > > > that every 3 m of height adds a d6 of damage, > and so I inferred > > > that damage is linear with kinetic energy. > Actually, that seems > > > pretty reasonable, all other things being equal. > > > > > > However, it seems to me that knockback distance > is a linear > > > function of velocity, not of kinetic energy > (which is proportional > > > to the square of velocity). To fling someone 60m > would require a > > > minimum velocity of about 45 m/s, which is about > the speed one > > > would attain after falling about 100 m. So > damage on landing should > > > be about 33d6. > > > > > > I don't think that damage should max out at > 12d6, because the > > > entire body is hitting a solid surface, and > while 12d6 is every bit > > > as lethal as 33d6, the degree of overkill is a > useful indication of > > > how recognizable the residue will be. > > > > > > Brad Furst > > If you've seen one non-sequitur, then all the tea > in china. > > > Brad, it's long been worked out that all RQ stats > are actually logarithmic > in nature, and that simple algebra is sufficient to > compare the various > forces against each other --- ie distance > fallen/velocity has a similar > structure as SIZ+CON/Hit Points > > The rules have been designed (or re-designed > depending on your POV) to use > the same logarithmic scale for all relevant forces, > so that simple algebra > can handle all scaling issues... :-) > > Julian Lord > > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com From styopa1 at gmail.com Wed Nov 29 06:46:58 2006 From: styopa1 at gmail.com (Styopa) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 13:46:58 -0600 Subject: [Rq-rules] Enhancing Divine Magic In-Reply-To: <112820061850.5522.456C84ED0004A242000015922207300793CFCE050C070D@comcast.net> References: <112820061850.5522.456C84ED0004A242000015922207300793CFCE050C070D@comcast.net> Message-ID: <56e64e7a0611281146n2f12a8caocb55cd4946714b94@mail.gmail.com> I especially like the benefit for special and critical worship successes - talk about an incentive to prosytelize. :) I had the same problem, I found few people (including myself) that believed reward=>cost for Divine Magic. So I spent a lot of time coming up with rationales for the various magics, to explain why they were different, and more importantly, how those differences could come through in gameplay. My rationales: General Spirit Magics are cantrips; the kind of magics performed by hedge-wizards and local witches with minor effects like lighting a little fire or mending a broken pot. (Game rule: just about anyone could learn them, but no player could have spirit magics greater than character's POW/6). More powerful spirit magics (4+) involve actually trafficking with minor spirits. These aren't actually represented in-game i.e. with stats, but the effects would be described that way: a bladesharp 5 might be a keening spirit borne on the sharp edge of a sword etc. Game effects (and non-canonical spells) would be things that you could have such a creature do - put out a light, distract someone, find someone, etc...the more powerful the spell, the more efficacious the spirit. Works better: on living creatures; Works worse: against inanimate objects (particularly manufactured ones like a door) and the undead (unless the undead's spirit itself can be dominated and controlled) Sorcery was easy. I always personally liked RQ3 sorcery, with it's pure mechanistic effects. With Sandy's Tekumel spell lists it didn't take much fluffing. Works best: in high mana areas (I created a map of Glorantha with Ley Lines arcing across it) Works worst: in low mana places Divine magic is a) intrinsically more powerful and b) guided by the hand of a nearly omniscient god. So a blast-effect spell can be detonated in the midst of the party and it would only affect the bad guys. I tended to give bonus effects to spells cast on party members that participated in worship and weren't of an inimical cult. A healing spell would give precise feedback about what remained to be healed/fixed. Works best: in/near worshippers; Works worst: in enemy temples/consecrated grounds. On 11/28/06, Jim Bickmeyer wrote: > > I allow initiates to regain Divine spells on holy days. Whether they were > low or high holy days don't matter. The exception is Divine spells that > state Non-Reusable. Priests and Rune Lords only need to worship at a holy > site to regain reusable divine spells. If you want to increase the magic > level, then allow the Non-Reusable to be renewed on holy days, or only the > high holy day. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061128/fc5a7545/attachment.html From steve at perrinworlds.com Wed Nov 29 12:03:38 2006 From: steve at perrinworlds.com (Steve Perrin) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:03:38 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] Enhancing Divine Magic References: <112820061850.5522.456C84ED0004A242000015922207300793CFCE050C070D@comcast.net> <56e64e7a0611281146n2f12a8caocb55cd4946714b94@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <006801c71352$34378bd0$a4407442@chaosce4015e22> My current approach to Divine Magic for Initiates and Acolytes is to make it renewable. They are just limited on how many spells they can sacrifice for and may have a problem with how they renew them (Holy days are good, or returning to the shrine they got the spell from...) Steve Perrin ----- Original Message ----- From: Styopa To: Discussion of RuneQuest rules. Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Enhancing Divine Magic I especially like the benefit for special and critical worship successes - talk about an incentive to prosytelize. :) I had the same problem, I found few people (including myself) that believed reward=>cost for Divine Magic. So I spent a lot of time coming up with rationales for the various magics, to explain why they were different, and more importantly, how those differences could come through in gameplay. My rationales: General Spirit Magics are cantrips; the kind of magics performed by hedge-wizards and local witches with minor effects like lighting a little fire or mending a broken pot. (Game rule: just about anyone could learn them, but no player could have spirit magics greater than character's POW/6). More powerful spirit magics (4+) involve actually trafficking with minor spirits. These aren't actually represented in-game i.e. with stats, but the effects would be described that way: a bladesharp 5 might be a keening spirit borne on the sharp edge of a sword etc. Game effects (and non-canonical spells) would be things that you could have such a creature do - put out a light, distract someone, find someone, etc...the more powerful the spell, the more efficacious the spirit. Works better: on living creatures; Works worse: against inanimate objects (particularly manufactured ones like a door) and the undead (unless the undead's spirit itself can be dominated and controlled) Sorcery was easy. I always personally liked RQ3 sorcery, with it's pure mechanistic effects. With Sandy's Tekumel spell lists it didn't take much fluffing. Works best: in high mana areas (I created a map of Glorantha with Ley Lines arcing across it) Works worst: in low mana places Divine magic is a) intrinsically more powerful and b) guided by the hand of a nearly omniscient god. So a blast-effect spell can be detonated in the midst of the party and it would only affect the bad guys. I tended to give bonus effects to spells cast on party members that participated in worship and weren't of an inimical cult. A healing spell would give precise feedback about what remained to be healed/fixed. Works best: in/near worshippers; Works worst: in enemy temples/consecrated grounds. On 11/28/06, Jim Bickmeyer wrote: I allow initiates to regain Divine spells on holy days. Whether they were low or high holy days don't matter. The exception is Divine spells that state Non-Reusable. Priests and Rune Lords only need to worship at a holy site to regain reusable divine spells. If you want to increase the magic level, then allow the Non-Reusable to be renewed on holy days, or only the high holy day. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ RQ-Rules mailing list RQ-Rules at crashbox.com http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061128/c351a1b7/attachment.html From soltakss at yahoo.com Wed Nov 29 21:42:12 2006 From: soltakss at yahoo.com (Simon Phipp) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 02:42:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Rq-rules] *** JUNK MAIL ***Re: Lions and Midgets/Orc Campaign/Enhancing Divine Magic Message-ID: <20061129104213.19230.qmail@web51001.mail.yahoo.com> Lev Lafayette: >> Really? We've always played Claw/Claw/Bite with >> the two claws hitting simultaneously followed by the >> Bite later on. It makes them fairly nasty opponents. > > Claw/Claw/Bite is a AD&D convention ;-) And a damn good one, too. > In RQ III the default is one claw at SR 5, one bite at > SR 8 followed by a rake at SR 5 and another bite the > next round at SR 8 if both hit. Was it? We always played RH Claw SR5 LH Claw SR5 Bite SR8, then next round if both claws had hit, Rake SR5, Bite SR8 (with a bonus becuase the lion was hanging on). Of course, it rarely got that far. Gianni: > This is a great post I'm gonna keep. Reminds me of my first ever AD&D2 > campaign. There was a human kingdom that had conquered some orcish lands and > had converted the Orcs there to the worship of the 'good' gods. One of the > characters was a paladin and he was so disappointed when he got to that part > of the country and saw that he just couldn't kill scores of orcs, contrary to > what he was used to. Guess it also made him think (the player, not the > character). Thanks. That just goes to show that is isn't the game or the rules that convey the game atmosphere, but the setting. So, good Orcs in AD&D is entirely possible. But, the only good orc is a ..... tiggermb: > I am sure this has been talked about before, but I figured I would bring up the following topic: Why not, we've nothing better to do :-) > When I look at the RQ III magic rules, sometimes I think ? ?Why would anyone want to use > certain one use divine magic spells?? For Example, sacrificing one point of POW for 2 points of > healing ONE TIME ONLY seems a poor trade when one considers that the Spirit Magic spell of > the same ability can be used as long as one has the MP to spare. Yes, Heal Wound/Heal Area isn't that great a spell on a one-use basis, except that it allows unlimited healing of a location for a point of POW. So, if you have Heal 3 and a one-use Heal Wound and someone has hit your friend for 13 points in the chest, so he's about to die, then it would take 5 castings of Heal 3 to get him fully healed, but only one Heal Wound with 13 MPs to heal him completely. As an emergency measure, it is great. I'm not sure which spell gives you 2 points of healing for 1 POW, but I don;t have my rulebooks with me. > Does anyone allow initiates to have multiple use spells? I would think that tithing, prayer, and spell > regeneration limitations (need to be at a temple) would be enough of a limitation on the power of > Divine spells. I was thinking of allowing initiates multiple use spells, and having certain spells be > ?Priest Only? like Worship, Excommunication, Sanctify, and some of the very ?Powerful? spells. No, because initiates are initiates and are not powerful enough or advanced enough to be granted reusable spells. That's an honour and a privilege that only Acolytes, Priests and some Lords get. In RQ2, we used one-use spells all the while, as it made surviving easier until we qualified for Associate Priest/Priests status. I remember using a one-use Teleport spell and not begrudging the 3 point cost at all. In RQ3, of course, you needed 10 points of Divine Magic to become a Priest, so you tended to save them up, but I still used them when I needed to. In fact, with 15 POW it was worth spending 3 points on a spell on the assumption that you'd get the POW back sooner or later anyway. > I was just wondering what other?s thoughts on Divine magic have been, and how they have made it > more appealing for characters to use in their campaigns Currently, we use a Divine Pool system where people can get Divine Magic as normal but can also sacrifice POW into a Divine Pool. They can use points from the Divine Pool to power the spells they have. If they are initiates, they lose the Pool points but keep the spell. If they are acolytes or above, they can repray the Pool points. So, Tigger is an initiate of the Tiger God and sacrifices for one-use spells Bounce and Claw2, he also has sacrificed 5 POW into his Divine Pool. He is being chased by guardsmen and needs to get over the city wall quickly, so he casts Bounce but uses a point from the Divine Pool to fuel the spell. His Divine Pool goes down to 4, he keeps the Bounce spell and bounces over the wall. He then becomes an acolyte of the cult and meets the same guardsmen in a dark alley, this time he casts Claw2 to turn his hands into claws, using 2 points from the Divine Pool. Later that day he is ambushed by the surviving guardsmen and casts Claw2 again using the last 2 points in hs Divine Pool. He is losing, so he casts Bounce and jumps over the wall. He has used up his Divine Pool (2+2) and has cast Bounce, so he needs to repray them at the temple, but he hasn't used up his Claw2 spell and can cast that. Robert Hoffman: > I agree completely; when using RQ3 character generation the players that > roll divine magic for beginning characters feel gypped compared to the > players who get a practical spirit spell. That in turn provides little > motivation to sacrifice for these spells later on. Don't forget that cult members also get access to Spirit Magic. So, they have a mixture of Spirit and Divine Magic. They can take small Spirit Magic spells at first and get Divine Magic for the more unusual cult powers. So, a healer could get Heal 3 from the cult and Heal Body, she would use Heal 3 for minor healing and Heal Body in emergencies. We never had a problem with sacrificing for spells, as long as we could get the POW back later. We used spell barrages all the time, so getting POW ticks was never really a problem. Even if we went to low POW, the GM would throw in a couple of zombies or skeletons to give them a chance. > Shouldn't these spells > be more epic like Mass Heal (Heals all allied characters in 20' radius 4 > points), or Lightning Storm (damages target plus 1D4 adjacent targets). > These power should be erupting from the character with god like fury,... > Bless Crop doesn't quite have that feel. Maybe there is a need for stronger or mass effect spells. For normal use the individual scope of spells is fine, but I can see where a Lightning Storm spell could be useful. If you are the GM, then make one up. If you are a player then talk to your GM about it and maybe it will happen in your campaign. Or write them up and post them here. Bless Crops is fine if you want to bless a field. It works on a one-spell-per-small-farm basis, anyway, so does what it is meant to. See Ya Simon Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061129/d0e41d3a/attachment.html From alanjrichards at googlemail.com Thu Nov 30 03:59:30 2006 From: alanjrichards at googlemail.com (alan richards) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 16:59:30 +0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Divine Magic Message-ID: <50a0ed550611290859v2a40c453w6746b65f46712c8d@mail.gmail.com> It has been a while since I actually played RuneQuest but I will add my voice to the 'Divine Magic is unattractive to players' chorus. I definitely noticed players not choosing Divine Magic as it seems very expensive to pay permanent Pow for a one-shot spell. And as a player I definitely avoided it for that reason. In the past I used the 'Runepower' and 'Runepool' ideas (on which subject there are a whole swathe of posts in the archives for this list so I won't re-post them here). I might (if and when I ever run an RQ game again) use the idea of making Divine Magic bonkersley powerful instead of or as well as the Runepower pool Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061129/532a64a5/attachment.html From IQuinn at surewest.net Thu Nov 30 04:49:07 2006 From: IQuinn at surewest.net (Robert Hoffman) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 09:49:07 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Divine Magic In-Reply-To: <50a0ed550611290859v2a40c453w6746b65f46712c8d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001401c713de$ac256db0$6401a8c0@QUINNLAND> Yeah I am curious how other groups deal with the permanent power issue. If I have a POW of 13 and sacrifice 3 points, I now have a POW of 10. Putting aside what spell I may have gained for my sacrifice my spirit magic percentage has now dropped from 65% to 50% to cast and average break thru (against a target who also has POW 10) has reduced by the same amount. This means that my odds to successfully get a POW dot is more difficult and even when I succeed advancement is not a sure thing (about 50% chance to go up). After weeks of failure and struggle you slowly crawl back to your POW of 13,. are you ready to make the same sacrifice again? Do other people find POW to be a "cheaper" commodity? Do you have other opportunities for advancement or by odds then what I listed above? In my game I even introduced spirit stones (basically inert spirits) that can be absorbed with a straight POW x N (where N = 1-6 depending on potency of the stone). Anyone use similar things to gain POW? In our game we also require POW sacrifice to "bond" to more powerful magic items and that is usually more appealing to players then making the same sacrifice for a one use spell,. in fact maybe it that choice that makes the divine magic pale in comparison. -----Original Message----- From: rq-rules-bounces at crashbox.com [mailto:rq-rules-bounces at crashbox.com] On Behalf Of alan richards Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 9:00 AM To: rq-rules at crashbox.com Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Divine Magic It has been a while since I actually played RuneQuest but I will add my voice to the 'Divine Magic is unattractive to players' chorus. I definitely noticed players not choosing Divine Magic as it seems very expensive to pay permanent Pow for a one-shot spell. And as a player I definitely avoided it for that reason. In the past I used the 'Runepower' and 'Runepool' ideas (on which subject there are a whole swathe of posts in the archives for this list so I won't re-post them here). I might (if and when I ever run an RQ game again) use the idea of making Divine Magic bonkersley powerful instead of or as well as the Runepower pool Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061129/7f6f2044/attachment.html From tiggermb at verizon.net Thu Nov 30 05:17:27 2006 From: tiggermb at verizon.net (tiggermb at verizon.net) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 12:17:27 -0600 (CST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Orc campaign/Non human campaign Message-ID: <1874066.8678661164824249126.JavaMail.root@vms074.mailsrvcs.net> I was a participant once in a short campaign - it was composed entirely of halflings! :: Ducks to avoid thrown tomatoes:: It's true though. A GM I had way back in the stone age put us players through series of adventures (not many) based on a halfling family. The GM placed amphasis on our size when we were in human areas. Lots of everyday tasks were a bit more difficult. Two family members drowned in 4 feet of water. When staying at an inn 6 of us would sleep in 2 beds and feel like royalty with all the extra space. Why do I bring this up? Amongst all the other good suggestions, it might be good to figure out some PHYSICAL charactersitics for Orcs that are very different from human. Find somethings that Orcs cannot do that humans can (and vice versa), things that as players go about their business will scream to them "I am an Orc, not a Human!" Suggestions: No matter how well Orcs understand the speech of other races, they cannot reproduce the sounds, and have communication problems in non or places. Perhaps orcs could be a little ape like, and have feet that are more prehensile than normal characters. GM "The sword drops out of reach" Player "I grab it with my foot and slash at my opponnets calf" Maybe thier hands are LESS prehensile, and they cannot pick locks and other activities that require fine hand motor control. Theese are just a few suggestions. When playing a group of halflings it really took some physical challenges in ordinary circumstances to make us say "That's right - we are all halflings now"... From IQuinn at surewest.net Thu Nov 30 06:23:20 2006 From: IQuinn at surewest.net (Robert Hoffman) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 11:23:20 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] Orc Campaign In-Reply-To: <001401c70e5f$b001abd0$6401a8c0@QUINNLAND> Message-ID: <002001c713eb$d7d9b580$6401a8c0@QUINNLAND> Thanks for all the great feedback! To add to my own discussion one element I have had fun with is the relationship with the orc's nearest neighbors; Ducks. In exchange for an uneasy peace the ducks are given a section of land to settle for their own (a section of land that provides a convenient buffer between the orcs and their own enemies in the mountains). Now these ducks that only a few seasons ago were the much anticipated main course at tribal feasts now must be dealt with in a slightly more civilized manner. Still the orcs can smell a duck coming from a mile away and the smell sets them salivating. -----Original Message----- From: rq-rules-bounces at crashbox.com [mailto:rq-rules-bounces at crashbox.com] On Behalf Of Robert Hoffman Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 9:57 AM To: rq-rules at crashbox.com Subject: [Rq-rules] Orc Campaign Stepping away from the midgets for a moment I thought I'd seek some suggestions for a new campaign. To give my players a break from the norm they have all created orc characters. Their previous adventure actually had them in the role as representatives of a trade house sent to explore a newly discovered (actually rediscovered) island that the Lunars only recently opened to the public. On this island they discovered a large population of orcs who were trying to deal with the new arrivals; a task made more difficult by deceptive Lunar diplomacy. Anyway the tables are turned now, and the party is starting off in the heart of the orc territory at a safe distance from the bordering humans and the politics involved (for the moment). All that said, I'm looking for suggestions on how to make the orc experience feel distinctly different to the players. Any flavor elements, from cultural / ritual to changes in play mechanics that would reinforce the non-human element. The easy temptation is the stereotypical World of Warcraft type orc but anything I can add above and beyond would be worthwhile. Cheers, Bert -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061129/db7768cb/attachment.html From DevinC at aol.com Thu Nov 30 06:26:51 2006 From: DevinC at aol.com (DevinC at aol.com) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 14:26:51 EST Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Divine Magic Message-ID: In a message dated 11/29/2006 9:00:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, alanjrichards at googlemail.com writes: "I definitely noticed players not choosing Divine Magic as it seems very expensive to pay permanent Pow for a one-shot spell. And as a player I definitely avoided it for that reason. " When I played RQ 2 and 3, I preferred, as an initiate, to view Divine Magic as a sort of cheap DI. You sacrifice for it, and you keep it available for when your life is on the line. I think that is how Divine Magic should work for initiates. They get enough magic with spirit magic/battle magic. The fact that divine magic reusably was only available to rune levels helped to make that status exalted and elevated. Devin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061129/8433772c/attachment.html From bick10 at comcast.net Thu Nov 30 08:16:37 2006 From: bick10 at comcast.net (Jim Bickmeyer) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 21:16:37 +0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Divine Magic Message-ID: <112920062116.28276.456DF8B5000E582900006E742200760180CFCE050C070D@comcast.net> > alanjrichards at googlemail.com writes: > > "I definitely noticed players not choosing Divine Magic as it seems very > expensive to pay permanent Pow for a one-shot spell. And as a player I > definitely avoided it for that reason. " My experience with players in RQ3, most will sell their souls for Spirit Magic Heal 4, and walk away from one-use Divine Heal. Only two players ever went to get 10 points of divine magic. One wanted to be a Seven Mothers priest and the other did it after I made initiate divine renewable on Holy Days. Well, there was the one player that in all sacrificed over 10 POW on general HP enhancement. But didn???t want RL or RP. In game terms they were separating from their PC???s worshiping gods and started to want them to become spirit worshipers. They had started to feel trapped, limited and forced by me, the GM, to follow a weaker magic. When I provide a way for their magic to be renewable, they then experimented with more Divine and got use out of the spells. They then took more interest in their god and the allies. And they started to enjoy the game more. Jim -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: DevinC at aol.com Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Re: Divine Magic Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 19:27:12 +0000 Size: 3293 Url: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061129/f354b899/attachment.mht From lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au Thu Nov 30 08:18:47 2006 From: lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au (Lev Lafayette) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:18:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Rq-rules] Orc Campaign In-Reply-To: <002001c713eb$d7d9b580$6401a8c0@QUINNLAND> Message-ID: <151973.2255.qm@web33511.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hope you enjoy the Orcish point of view. It may not be RQ, but I'm in a DragonQuest game (slowly introducing some RQ concepts), where Orcs are the "cradle of humanity". They have a tendency, rather like RQ trolls, to be a bit random in their breeding thus giving rise among their lot those described as Giants, Trolls, Orcs and Goblins. They also *all* suffer from serious mood swings. This said, they're damn proud about being the first humans, the kingdoms with the highest population and the producers of the best weapons in the land! Give Orcs characteristics like this certainly stops them from being mere targets for PCs. In fact, there is even interest in players roleplaying Orcs.. All the best, Lev --- Robert Hoffman wrote: > Thanks for all the great feedback! > > > > To add to my own discussion one element I have had > fun with is the > relationship with the orc's nearest neighbors; > Ducks. In exchange for an > uneasy peace the ducks are given a section of land > to settle for their own > (a section of land that provides a convenient buffer > between the orcs and > their own enemies in the mountains). Now these > ducks that only a few > seasons ago were the much anticipated main course at > tribal feasts now must > be dealt with in a slightly more civilized manner. > Still the orcs can smell > a duck coming from a mile away and the smell sets > them salivating. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rq-rules-bounces at crashbox.com > [mailto:rq-rules-bounces at crashbox.com] > On Behalf Of Robert Hoffman > Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 9:57 AM > To: rq-rules at crashbox.com > Subject: [Rq-rules] Orc Campaign > > > > Stepping away from the midgets for a moment I > thought I'd seek some > suggestions for a new campaign. To give my players > a break from the norm > they have all created orc characters. Their > previous adventure actually had > them in the role as representatives of a trade house > sent to explore a newly > discovered (actually rediscovered) island that the > Lunars only recently > opened to the public. On this island they > discovered a large population of > orcs who were trying to deal with the new arrivals; > a task made more > difficult by deceptive Lunar diplomacy. Anyway the > tables are turned now, > and the party is starting off in the heart of the > orc territory at a safe > distance from the bordering humans and the politics > involved (for the > moment). > > > > All that said, I'm looking for suggestions on how to > make the orc experience > feel distinctly different to the players. Any > flavor elements, from > cultural / ritual to changes in play mechanics that > would reinforce the > non-human element. The easy temptation is the > stereotypical World of > Warcraft type orc but anything I can add above and > beyond would be > worthwhile. > > > > Cheers, > > Bert > > > _______________________________________________ > RQ-Rules mailing list > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index From kruch7 at cox.net Thu Nov 30 09:17:45 2006 From: kruch7 at cox.net (Joseph Elric Smith) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 17:17:45 -0500 Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Divine Magic References: Message-ID: <032f01c71404$324efad0$6701a8c0@Arioch> That is how our group viewed it as well ken Gygax is to Gaming what Kirby was to comics Alas poor Elric I was a thousand times more evil than you Slice N Dice: Game and Pizza Parlour WWBYD What would Brigham Young do ? http://www.geocities.com/J_Elric_Smith/Index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: DevinC at aol.com To: rq-rules at crashbox.com Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Re: Divine Magic In a message dated 11/29/2006 9:00:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, alanjrichards at googlemail.com writes: "I definitely noticed players not choosing Divine Magic as it seems very expensive to pay permanent Pow for a one-shot spell. And as a player I definitely avoided it for that reason. " When I played RQ 2 and 3, I preferred, as an initiate, to view Divine Magic as a sort of cheap DI. You sacrifice for it, and you keep it available for when your life is on the line. I think that is how Divine Magic should work for initiates. They get enough magic with spirit magic/battle magic. The fact that divine magic reusably was only available to rune levels helped to make that status exalted and elevated. Devin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ RQ-Rules mailing list RQ-Rules at crashbox.com http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061129/c6cb7b46/attachment.html From lordtwig at cyberkeep.com Thu Nov 30 10:04:12 2006 From: lordtwig at cyberkeep.com (Eric Bailey) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 15:04:12 -0800 Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Divine Magic In-Reply-To: <032f01c71404$324efad0$6701a8c0@Arioch> References: <032f01c71404$324efad0$6701a8c0@Arioch> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20061129144348.066acaa8@cyberkeep.com> I am new to this list and I must admit to being slightly amazed by the attitude towards Divine Magic. Everyone in the groups I have played in has always sacrificed for Divine Magic and thought it a good deal. Generally it worked like this: As you adventure your Power slowly climbed towards 21 (human max). When your Power reached around 17 or 18 we would start to sacrifice for a point or two of Divine Magic. If you didn't your Power gain would slow down even more until it stopped completely at 21. Usually 16 was thought to be an optimum place to keep your Power for a good chance of overcoming people with spells and being able to gain Power afterwards. Now you wouldn't use that magic unless it was an absolute emergency. It is not common magic like Spirit Magic, it is Divine Magic. But if you had a Zorak Zoran berserker bearing down you, it sure is nice to fire off that Truesword for double weapon damage in one Strike Rank instead of trying to get a Bladesharp 4 off. Yeah, good luck with that! Once you had about 5 or 6 points of Divine Magic saved up it was pretty certain that you had the skills necessary to become a Rune Priest, so you would dump another 4 or 5 points or Power for Divine Magic to get up to 10 and try and become a Priest. Once you were a Priest, then the Divine Magic would start flying! We easily had characters with 40 or 50 points of Divine Magic after a few years of playing the same campaign. Once you have a Rune Lord tear through the party with a Truesword (or Crush 4 or Slash 4) and Shield 4 up, they will learn the worth of divine magic. Elves with Arrow Trance and Chameleon were also incredibly deadly. At 02:17 PM 11/29/2006, Joseph Elric Smith wrote: >That is how our group viewed it as well >ken > >Gygax is to Gaming what Kirby was to comics >Alas poor Elric I was a thousand times more evil than you > >Slice N Dice: Game and Pizza Parlour > >WWBYD What would Brigham Young do ? >http://www.geocities.com/J_Elric_Smith/Index.html >----- Original Message ----- >From: DevinC at aol.com >To: rq-rules at crashbox.com >Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 2:26 PM >Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Re: Divine Magic > >In a message dated 11/29/2006 9:00:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, >alanjrichards at googlemail.com writes: >"I definitely noticed players not choosing Divine Magic as it seems >very expensive to pay permanent Pow for a one-shot spell. And as a >player I definitely avoided it for that reason. " > > >When I played RQ 2 and 3, I preferred, as an initiate, to view >Divine Magic as a sort of cheap DI. You sacrifice for it, and you >keep it available for when your life is on the line. I think that is >how Divine Magic should work for initiates. They get enough magic >with spirit magic/battle magic. The fact that divine magic reusably >was only available to rune levels helped to make that status exalted >and elevated. > >Devin > > > >---------- >_______________________________________________ >RQ-Rules mailing list >RQ-Rules at crashbox.com >http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules > >_______________________________________________ >RQ-Rules mailing list >RQ-Rules at crashbox.com >http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules From clive.wickens at btopenworld.com Thu Nov 30 18:37:56 2006 From: clive.wickens at btopenworld.com (Clive Wickens) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 07:37:56 -0000 Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: divine magic Message-ID: <000a01c71452$73de70e0$c35f8456@sickboy> In the last campaign I ran I simply made it easier for initiates to regain divine magic. Priests, runelords etc could regain their magic by simply praying for a period of time at a shrine, whereas initiates could regain their magic at a monthly high holy day ceremony at something of temple size or larger. So you couldn't spray your spells around like they were confetti, but they were still an attractive proposition. As others have suggested, you can also compensate by beefing up divine magic. For example the standard Shield spell gives you 2 points each of Protection and Countermagic ( I think ) but at least one of the deities in my campaign also gave you 2 points of Spirit Screen or whatever it is ! Finally it's worth remembering that your standard spirit spell spell lasts 5 minutes, but divine magic lasts 15. Thats a big advantage and if you bung in a couple of points of Extension as well...... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://localhost.localdomain/pipermail/rq-rules/attachments/20061130/9b2f3b85/attachment.html