From carpgachair at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  1 03:29:05 2008
From: carpgachair at yahoo.com (Paul Cardwell)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 08:29:05 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
In-Reply-To: <web-173839259@california.com>
Message-ID: <351.45706.qm@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


--- Anders Swenson <anders at california.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 07:42:31 -0600
>  Styopa <styopa1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Maybe it's just a jaded 40-year old gamer talking
> (wow, have I really been
> > 'gaming' for 30 years?  
> 
> [snip]
> 
> So have I, but I started when I was a little older.
> Lots moe time for gaming
> when you're retired!
> 
> --Anders

I haven't quite had 30 years (but close) because I was
turned off by the arbitrary restrictions and acres of
charts of D&D then.  I didn't get into RPG until 1982
when I discovered RuneQuest.  On the other hand, I
will be 75 near the end of April.  Any antiques out
there who beat that (there are bound to be).

Paul Cardwell


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


From sverrelarne at yahoo.no  Sat Mar  1 04:09:35 2008
From: sverrelarne at yahoo.no (Trifletraxor)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:09:35 +0100 (CET)
Subject: Vedr. Re: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
In-Reply-To: <351.45706.qm@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <856159.39725.qm@web28001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Cool! :-D
   
  SGL.

Paul Cardwell <carpgachair at yahoo.com> skrev:
  I haven't quite had 30 years (but close) because I was
turned off by the arbitrary restrictions and acres of
charts of D&D then. I didn't get into RPG until 1982
when I discovered RuneQuest. On the other hand, I
will be 75 near the end of April. Any antiques out
there who beat that (there are bound to be).

Paul Cardwell

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  
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From steve at limitedchaos.com  Sat Mar  1 05:37:06 2008
From: steve at limitedchaos.com (steve at limitedchaos.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:37:06 -0700
Subject: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
Message-ID: <20080229113706.6f055db5b52674836533fcb6c06185d4.9a63539986.wbe@email.secureserver.net>

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From royce at efn.org  Sat Mar  1 10:50:02 2008
From: royce at efn.org (royce at efn.org)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 15:50:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Society
Message-ID: <49487.158.165.144.181.1204329002.squirrel@webmail.efn.org>

Greetings, All,
   I haven't yet carefully studied the spells of the RQ III Magic Book. 
No time, so far, and probably not much until summer vacation (being a
school teacher).  Hence my hope that fellow RQers might have some ready
answers.
   My question:  Given the spells listed in the RQ III Magic Book, what
are the societal implications?  How would the availability of these
spells change lifestyles, life expectancies, politics, professions, and
the like?  How would people with magic live differently from the real
past?  (Would Bless Crops be the most important spell in the world?)
   Follow-up question:  What spells would be important to a Roman general
or feudal noble fielding an army?  I presume that the leader in
question would want his troops equipped with typical battle magic
spells -- bladesharp, healing, etc.  But is that all?  Which spells
would be most useful in gaining intelligence, in preparing a winning
opening to the battle, in reinforcing a key point in the battle line,
in eliminating an opposing leader, in... in what?  I don't yet know.
   Any & all observations welcome.
   Sincerely,
Asher





From shaw at caprica.com  Sun Mar  2 07:01:39 2008
From: shaw at caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 12:01:39 -0800
Subject: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
In-Reply-To: <351.45706.qm@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <web-173839259@california.com>
	<351.45706.qm@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.1.20080301120116.0350baa8@caprica.com>

At 08:29 AM 2/29/2008, you wrote:

>--- Anders Swenson <anders at california.com> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 07:42:31 -0600
> >  Styopa <styopa1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Maybe it's just a jaded 40-year old gamer talking
> > (wow, have I really been
> > > 'gaming' for 30 years?
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > So have I, but I started when I was a little older.
> > Lots moe time for gaming
> > when you're retired!
> >
> > --Anders
>
>I haven't quite had 30 years (but close) because I was
>turned off by the arbitrary restrictions and acres of
>charts of D&D then.  I didn't get into RPG until 1982
>when I discovered RuneQuest.  On the other hand, I
>will be 75 near the end of April.  Any antiques out
>there who beat that (there are bound to be).
>
>Paul Cardwell

I don't recall encountering an RPG player in that age before for what 
its worth.



From shaw at caprica.com  Sun Mar  2 07:03:10 2008
From: shaw at caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 12:03:10 -0800
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Society
In-Reply-To: <49487.158.165.144.181.1204329002.squirrel@webmail.efn.org>
References: <49487.158.165.144.181.1204329002.squirrel@webmail.efn.org>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.1.20080301120158.0347a218@caprica.com>


>   My question:  Given the spells listed in the RQ III Magic Book, what
>are the societal implications?  How would the availability of these
>spells change lifestyles, life expectancies, politics, professions, and
>the like?  How would people with magic live differently from the real
>past?  (Would Bless Crops be the most important spell in the world?)

Spirit magic only has modest implications, largely because of readily 
available minor trauma healing; divine magic a bit more so, but 
again, primarily because of things like healing.  Sorcery gets more 
complex, especially as Duration starts to rise.





From leonbk at yahoo.com  Sun Mar  2 07:32:57 2008
From: leonbk at yahoo.com (Leon Kirshtein)
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2008 12:32:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Society
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20080301120158.0347a218@caprica.com>
Message-ID: <48222.37087.qm@web51711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>


--- Wayne Shaw <shaw at caprica.com> wrote:
> >   My question:  Given the spells listed in the RQ
> III Magic Book, what
> >are the societal implications?  How would the
> availability of these
> >spells change lifestyles, life expectancies,
> politics, professions, and
> >the like?  How would people with magic live
> differently from the real
> >past?  (Would Bless Crops be the most important
> spell in the world?)
> 
> Spirit magic only has modest implications, largely
> because of readily 
> available minor trauma healing; divine magic a bit
> more so, but 
> again, primarily because of things like healing. 
> Sorcery gets more 
> complex, especially as Duration starts to rise.


I would disagree. 

Spirit magic being readily available would make life
much easier for the common man, even outside of
healing magic. Spells like Strength, Vigor,
Mindspeech, Mobility and even Blade Sharp could
revolutionize everyday life.

Divine magic from certain cults is priceless to
farmers and ranchers. Healing spells would be the
equivalent to modern day surgery, and so on. Divine
magic tends to concentrate on one aspect, due to the
nature of the deity, but within those parameters it
most likely to reign supreme.

Sorcery would be something people would pay for to be
cast on them for a period of time, Damage Boosting on
a plow for example, for specific tasks.

The presence of magic would make the society a lot
more like we have today with technology in most
aspects.

Leon




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping


From anders at california.com  Sun Mar  2 12:28:51 2008
From: anders at california.com (Anders Swenson)
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 17:28:51 -0800
Subject: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20080301120116.0350baa8@caprica.com>
References: <web-173839259@california.com>
	<351.45706.qm@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<7.0.1.0.1.20080301120116.0350baa8@caprica.com>
Message-ID: <web-174000983@california.com>

On Sat, 01 Mar 2008 12:01:39 -0800
 Wayne Shaw <shaw at caprica.com> wrote:
> At 08:29 AM 2/29/2008, you wrote:
> 
> >--- Anders Swenson <anders at california.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 07:42:31 -0600
> > >  Styopa <styopa1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Maybe it's just a jaded 40-year old gamer talking
> > > (wow, have I really been
> > > > 'gaming' for 30 years?
> > >
> > > [snip]
> > >
> > > So have I, but I started when I was a little older.
> > > Lots moe time for gaming
> > > when you're retired!
> > >
> > > --Anders
> >
> >I haven't quite had 30 years (but close) because I was
> >turned off by the arbitrary restrictions and acres of
> >charts of D&D then.  I didn't get into RPG until 1982
> >when I discovered RuneQuest.  On the other hand, I
> >will be 75 near the end of April.  Any antiques out
> >there who beat that (there are bound to be).
> >
> >Paul Cardwell
> 
> I don't recall encountering an RPG player in that age before for what its
> worth.

You ave me beat! only 63!
--Anders


From stephenlposey at earthlink.net  Sun Mar  2 13:09:16 2008
From: stephenlposey at earthlink.net (Stephen Posey)
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2008 19:09:16 -0700
Subject: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
In-Reply-To: <351.45706.qm@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <351.45706.qm@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47CA0C4C.8010403@earthlink.net>

Paul Cardwell wrote:
> --- Anders Swenson <anders at california.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 07:42:31 -0600
>>  Styopa <styopa1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Maybe it's just a jaded 40-year old gamer talking
>> (wow, have I really been
>>> 'gaming' for 30 years?  
>> [snip]
>>
>> So have I, but I started when I was a little older.
>> Lots moe time for gaming
>> when you're retired!
>>
>> --Anders
> 
> I haven't quite had 30 years (but close) because I was
> turned off by the arbitrary restrictions and acres of
> charts of D&D then.  I didn't get into RPG until 1982
> when I discovered RuneQuest.  On the other hand, I
> will be 75 near the end of April.  Any antiques out
> there who beat that (there are bound to be).
> 
> Paul Cardwell

I started in 1977 with Original "White Box" D&D. So I guess that 
puts me at 30+ years in this stuff.

Discovered RQ in '79 or so, and never looked back.

Stephen Posey
stephenlposey at earthlink.net







From jurrubin at gmail.com  Mon Mar  3 04:03:51 2008
From: jurrubin at gmail.com (David Smart)
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 11:03:51 -0600
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Societ
In-Reply-To: <48222.37087.qm@web51711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.1.20080301120158.0347a218@caprica.com>
	<48222.37087.qm@web51711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1c92296e0803020903v5df19860jccc7b24bf79a0f73@mail.gmail.com>

And there would also be much less technical innovation due the prevalence of
magic. Why spend days/weeks/months researching when a spell will do the same
thing with less work?

Research time is the purview of sorcerers, not anyone who uses spirit or
divine magic.
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From soltakss at yahoo.com  Mon Mar  3 05:35:06 2008
From: soltakss at yahoo.com (Simon Phipp)
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 10:35:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Society
Message-ID: <686119.90188.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Asher:
> I haven't yet carefully studied the spells of the RQ III Magic Book. 
> No time, so far, and probably not much until summer vacation (being a
> school teacher).  Hence my hope that fellow RQers might have some ready
> answers.

Ready answers are easy - don't expect me to be right, though.

> My question:  Given the spells listed in the RQ III Magic Book, what
> are the societal implications?  How would the availability of these
> spells change lifestyles, life expectancies, politics, professions, and
> the like?  How would people with magic live differently from the real
> past?  (Would Bless Crops be the most important spell in the world?)

It all depends on how you see magic working. (Don't you love answers that begin "It all depends"?)

Background spells such as Bless Crops would be useful as they provide more food than there would be without them. So, people can prodcue more food for less effort. However, what effect does this have? Does everyone eat more? Do farmers make loads more profit? Are there fewer farmers than would be expected? I would say no to all of those. There is more food available, so people don't starve as often, but there is no actual change. That's because they have always had Bless Crops, so they've always had more food and the culture doesn't change that much.

I'd just absorb most of the spell effects into the jobs that use the spells. So, people with Enchanting spells can make enchantments which means armour is tougher, chariots are faster and wagons don't break as easily. These are only really minor changes and won't make cultures any stronger, although they will make individuals' lives easier.

The availability of healing magic is more important as diseases become less fatal and wounds don't become infected or heal faster. So, people will live longer, assuming that healing magic is readily and widely available. But there again, war magic will be more available so battles would be more lethal. However, most people died of disease not battle wounds, so culturally that won't have a great effect.

> Follow-up question:  What spells would be important to a Roman general
> or feudal noble fielding an army?  I presume that the leader in
> question would want his troops equipped with typical battle magic
> spells -- bladesharp, healing, etc.  But is that all?  Which spells
> would be most useful in gaining intelligence, in preparing a winning
> opening to the battle, in reinforcing a key point in the battle line,
> in eliminating an opposing leader, in... in what?  I don't yet know.

Basically, they have the spells that are available to them.

If you have cults, as in normal RQ, then you have the spells that the cults grant. So, an army that worships Ares would have similar spells to one that worships Ares but different magic to one that worships Woden. So, Roman army fighting a Germanic army would pit the spells of Mars against those of Woden or Tiw, Truespear against Truespear, Shield against Berserker.

As for other spells, if you follow the Gloranthan model then each regiment would have its own Regimental Spirit housed in the Regimental Standard and providing one or two spells to the regiment. Also, armies from other places will worship other deities. So, in the Roman example, they might have armies from Greece or from further afield and perhaps would worship Ares or even Persian or Semitic wargods, each would have their own spells.

I can't really see generals teaching their soldiers many non-standard or unusual spells. First of all, where would they get them from. Second, how would they teach everyone the magic. Third, how would they get around the natural superstitions of soldiers?

However, I can see elite units being formed to attack generals or keypoints. They could fly or teleport in, assassinate the general and escape. They could also use magic to confuse the enemy, using mist or fog, causing downpours, using thunderbolts and lightning spells, calling down fir from the sun, using elementals to attack opponents and so on. A magic using army would have a definite advantage over a non-magic using army, but two magic using armies could well find out that their magics cancel out.

Familiars could be used for reconnaisance, as could spells such as Vision or Project Sight. It would be difficult to hide an army, for instance, from someone using such spells.

I think RQ3 asks what the effects would be of Sunspear using Huns in fuights against Romans. I think the answer would be - not a lot. The Romans would have spells of their own and they had conquered many more people and would have imported their deities and gained theor powers.

See Ya

Simon
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From nshapero at ix.netcom.com  Mon Mar  3 08:14:26 2008
From: nshapero at ix.netcom.com (Niall Campbell  Shapero)
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 13:14:26 -0800
Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Been Gaming a while!
References: <20080302183516.EC72414B1CF2@mini.thinbits.net>
Message-ID: <000501c87caa$67937260$a2cfe804@D8NNHS81>

Stephen Posey wrote (on Saturday, 01 March 2008 19:09:16 -00700):
**************************************************************
I started in 1977 with Original "White Box" D&D. So I guess that
puts me at 30+ years in this stuff.

Discovered RQ in '79 or so, and never looked back.
**************************************************************

I learned about D&D from Alan Lucien (one of the early playtesters) and got 
my 3 book set of D&D back in 1974.  Had a friend who nearly flunked out of 
Berkeley because of D&D (he got just a bit TOO much involved with the game). 
I'd moved down to LA before RQ came out, but got what must have been one of 
the first 1st edition books to hit LA.  It took me a while to give up D&D 
for RQ style gaming, but ... then I ended up coming up with my own system 
(what I've always regarded as the best feature of D&D -- that it virtually 
FORCED us to come up with our own "house rules" and build our own 
backgrounds -- I just kept on going).  I've not yet crossed the 60 year 
barrier, so I suppose that, while I've been gaming for almost 34 years, I'm 
still a "young pup" (in this respect at least...:-)).

-- Niall C. Shapero 




From devinc at aol.com  Mon Mar  3 18:23:36 2008
From: devinc at aol.com (devinc at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 02:23:36 -0500
Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Been Gaming a while!
In-Reply-To: <000501c87caa$67937260$a2cfe804@D8NNHS81>
References: <20080302183516.EC72414B1CF2@mini.thinbits.net>
	<000501c87caa$67937260$a2cfe804@D8NNHS81>
Message-ID: <8CA4B16A0D267B2-4F8-A3C0@webmail-nb03.sysops.aol.com>

I played in 1974 with D&D, actually with pre-published rules used by a group at Cal Tech. When my 8th B day came around I was given the original booklets. Haven't looked back since then. Am 42 now.

Played D&D almost exclusively (a little Traveller, a little Champions) until about 1985, when I switched entirely to RQ. Played RQ until about 1994, when RQ died and I went back to D&D.

I now pretty much exclusively play D&D, though I am amazed at how much RQ pervades my D&D world and style.


-----Original Message-----
From: Niall Campbell Shapero <nshapero at ix.netcom.com>
To: rq-rules at crashbox.com
Sent: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 1:14 pm
Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Been Gaming a while!


Stephen Posey wrote (on Saturday, 01 March 2008 19:09:16 -00700):?
**************************************************************?
I started in 1977 with Original "White Box" D&D. So I guess that?
puts me at 30+ years in this stuff.?
?
Discovered RQ in '79 or so, and never looked back.?
**************************************************************?
?
I learned about D&D from Alan Lucien (one of the early playtesters) and got my 3 book set of D&D back in 1974. Had a friend who nearly flunked out of Berkeley because of D&D (he got just a bit TOO much involved with the game). I'd moved down to LA before RQ came out, but got what must have been one of the first 1st edition books to hit LA. It took me a while to give up D&D for RQ style gaming, but ... then I ended up coming up with my own system (what I've always regarded as the best feature of D&D -- that it virtually FORCED us to come up with our own "house rules" and build our own backgrounds -- I just kept on going). I've not yet crossed the 60 year barrier, so I suppose that, while I've been gaming for almost 34 years, I'm still a "young pup" (in this respect at least...:-)).?
?
-- Niall C. Shapero ?
_______________________________________________?
RQ-Rules mailing list?
RQ-Rules at crashbox.com?
http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules?

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From tom at zunder.org.uk  Mon Mar  3 22:59:00 2008
From: tom at zunder.org.uk (Thomas Zunder)
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 11:59:00 +0000
Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Been Gaming a while!
In-Reply-To: <8CA4B16A0D267B2-4F8-A3C0@webmail-nb03.sysops.aol.com>
References: <20080302183516.EC72414B1CF2@mini.thinbits.net>	<000501c87caa$67937260$a2cfe804@D8NNHS81>
	<8CA4B16A0D267B2-4F8-A3C0@webmail-nb03.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <47CBE804.9010000@zunder.org.uk>

Traveller, 1980..


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From carpgachair at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  4 03:35:16 2008
From: carpgachair at yahoo.com (Paul Cardwell)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 08:35:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
In-Reply-To: <47CA0C4C.8010403@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <857904.68971.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

My question wasn't how long gamers have been playing -
I am a comparative newcomer to that.  My question was
how old the players are.  Despite the stereotype that
we are all teenagers or undergraduate college
students, most are in the '30-40s range.  Still I know
many are far older than that.

CAR-PGa, the RPG research network of which I am Chair,
averages late '40, and there is one in that group
older than I (by a year).

Paul Cardwell (75 this April 26)


--- Stephen Posey <stephenlposey at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Paul Cardwell wrote:
> > --- Anders Swenson <anders at california.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 07:42:31 -0600
> >>  Styopa <styopa1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Maybe it's just a jaded 40-year old gamer
> talking
> >> (wow, have I really been
> >>> 'gaming' for 30 years?  
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >> So have I, but I started when I was a little
> older.
> >> Lots moe time for gaming
> >> when you're retired!
> >>
> >> --Anders
> > 
> > I haven't quite had 30 years (but close) because I
> was
> > turned off by the arbitrary restrictions and acres
> of
> > charts of D&D then.  I didn't get into RPG until
> 1982
> > when I discovered RuneQuest.  On the other hand, I
> > will be 75 near the end of April.  Any antiques
> out
> > there who beat that (there are bound to be).
> > 
> > Paul Cardwell
> 
> I started in 1977 with Original "White Box" D&D. So
> I guess that 
> puts me at 30+ years in this stuff.
> 
> Discovered RQ in '79 or so, and never looked back.
> 
> Stephen Posey
> stephenlposey at earthlink.net



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


From shaw at caprica.com  Tue Mar  4 04:29:43 2008
From: shaw at caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 09:29:43 -0800
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Society
In-Reply-To: <48222.37087.qm@web51711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.1.20080301120158.0347a218@caprica.com>
	<48222.37087.qm@web51711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.1.20080303092632.0351faa8@caprica.com>


>I would disagree.
>
>Spirit magic being readily available would make life
>much easier for the common man, even outside of
>healing magic. Spells like Strength, Vigor,
>Mindspeech, Mobility and even Blade Sharp could
>revolutionize everyday life.

The problem is, the common man doesn't have many of those available 
at any given time; the costs and risks for learning them are high 
enough most aren't going to know more than a point of one or two, so 
any given person doesn't have access to any given spell.  Bladesharp 
makes a woodsman or soldier's life a bit better, but they don't last 
long enough to really help that much for the former; the net effect 
just isn't going to be terribly visible.

That's the real issue; the availability and duration of most of them 
just doesn't allow that much impact.  The healing is a special case 
because having even one member of a family with Healing 1 can very 
easily be a literally life or death issue.


>Divine magic from certain cults is priceless to
>farmers and ranchers. Healing spells would be the

Most of the ones where this is signficant aren't in the core RQ book 
though, so I wasn't assuming them in my response to the poster.





From shaw at caprica.com  Tue Mar  4 04:30:53 2008
From: shaw at caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 09:30:53 -0800
Subject: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
In-Reply-To: <47CA0C4C.8010403@earthlink.net>
References: <351.45706.qm@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<47CA0C4C.8010403@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.1.20080303093012.03531078@caprica.com>

At 06:09 PM 3/1/2008, you wrote:
>Paul Cardwell wrote:
>>--- Anders Swenson <anders at california.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 07:42:31 -0600
>>>  Styopa <styopa1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>Maybe it's just a jaded 40-year old gamer talking
>>>(wow, have I really been
>>>>'gaming' for 30 years?
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>So have I, but I started when I was a little older.
>>>Lots moe time for gaming
>>>when you're retired!
>>>
>>>--Anders
>>I haven't quite had 30 years (but close) because I was
>>turned off by the arbitrary restrictions and acres of
>>charts of D&D then.  I didn't get into RPG until 1982
>>when I discovered RuneQuest.  On the other hand, I
>>will be 75 near the end of April.  Any antiques out
>>there who beat that (there are bound to be).
>>Paul Cardwell
>
>I started in 1977 with Original "White Box" D&D. So I guess that 
>puts me at 30+ years in this stuff.
>
>Discovered RQ in '79 or so, and never looked back.

I started in '75, but I was only 18 at the time, so it doesn't put me 
in the actual age category of our more venerable posters, though I'm 
not uncompareable in age-in-hobby.



From carpgachair at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  4 04:06:27 2008
From: carpgachair at yahoo.com (Paul Cardwell)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 09:06:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
In-Reply-To: <20080229113706.6f055db5b52674836533fcb6c06185d4.9a63539986.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <171095.25258.qm@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

--- steve at limitedchaos.com wrote:
Actually, Paul, I think you are crowding the upper
limit, at least of role players. Anders is one of the
few gamers I know who is older than I am (I'm 62) and
that's only by a couple of years, if I remember
correctly. Gary Gygax is older than I am by several
years, but I don't think he hits 75. Dave Arneson is
younger than Gary, I believe. Lynn Willis of the
Chaosium may be up there, I forget how much older than
I am that he is, somewhere in the 10-15 range. And
that's about it.
 
There were a lot of miniatures and board gamers I knew
that were older than me back when I was really active
in my 30s and early 40s, but how many of them are
still alive?
 
Steve Perrin

I am quite aware I am crowding it, but I am no record
holder.  John Boardman (publishes a couple of RPG
fanzines, PBM archivist, CAR-PGa member, etc.) is the
year older one I mentioned.  I hardly think he is a
record holder either.

I am just looking for active players, not necessarily
game creators or other "clebrities".

Paul Cardwell



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From shaw at caprica.com  Tue Mar  4 04:32:03 2008
From: shaw at caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 09:32:03 -0800
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Societ
In-Reply-To: <1c92296e0803020903v5df19860jccc7b24bf79a0f73@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <7.0.1.0.1.20080301120158.0347a218@caprica.com>
	<48222.37087.qm@web51711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<1c92296e0803020903v5df19860jccc7b24bf79a0f73@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.1.20080303093104.0352cdc8@caprica.com>

At 09:03 AM 3/2/2008, you wrote:
>And there would also be much less technical innovation due the 
>prevalence of magic. Why spend days/weeks/months researching when a 
>spell will do the same thing with less work?

Well, the big issue would be that it can be easily distributed, which 
isn't true of the spells from any of the three magic systems.  In 
some cases that's not as necessary, but if you want something like a 
more efficient plow, the actual plow is more useful than the spell 
because its easier to get out there in the long run.





From styopa1 at gmail.com  Tue Mar  4 05:59:30 2008
From: styopa1 at gmail.com (Styopa)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 12:59:30 -0600
Subject: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
In-Reply-To: <171095.25258.qm@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20080229113706.6f055db5b52674836533fcb6c06185d4.9a63539986.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
	<171095.25258.qm@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <56e64e7a0803031059o4827b09ev52b2e0a10a70b29e@mail.gmail.com>

I believe average age of the the "pen and paper" role playing game cohort is
going to be rising at nearly a 1.0 ratio now over time.

I went to Gen Con the last couple of years it was in Milwaukee (I hope it
comes back...) and frankly, while the halls were packed with younger people,
they were almost exclusively card gamers or computer gamers....a very small
proportion that I ran into were actually RPGers.

I know from trying to run RPG games in an exurb of Minneapolis, finding
players is not terribly hard above the age of 30 (as I mentioned before, I'm
40) but despite having a couple of players who *really* love gaming, they
are having a rough time finding anyone who is interesting in role-playing
from week to week.  We've probably had 20+ boys (& girls) sit in on gaming
sessions, seemingly enjoy it, but not really be interested in coming back.
They enjoy playing, but they won't make a hole in their schedule.

Not to sound totally superficial or anything (and I think my generational
distance can define that I'm not trying to flatter MY generation), but from
my elder perspective, the ones I see playing wargames and RPGs are quite
clearly the more intelligent of their peers.  Maybe it's my sucky DM'ing,
certainly, but I find a lot of today's youth lack the attention span (or
sadly, basic arithmatic literacy) and want to go back to the very black &
white, flashy, no-imagination-required CRPGs.

Just seems like Role Playing Games and the people that play them are a dying
breed.  Not entirely absent from today's kids, but hardly replacement level.
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From shaw at caprica.com  Tue Mar  4 06:31:32 2008
From: shaw at caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 11:31:32 -0800
Subject: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
In-Reply-To: <56e64e7a0803031059o4827b09ev52b2e0a10a70b29e@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <20080229113706.6f055db5b52674836533fcb6c06185d4.9a63539986.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
	<171095.25258.qm@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<56e64e7a0803031059o4827b09ev52b2e0a10a70b29e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.1.20080303112949.0353fe98@caprica.com>


>Not to sound totally superficial or anything (and I think my 
>generational distance can define that I'm not trying to flatter MY 
>generation), but from my elder perspective, the ones I see playing 
>wargames and RPGs are quite clearly the more intelligent of their 
>peers.  Maybe it's my sucky DM'ing, certainly, but I find a lot of 
>today's youth lack the attention span (or sadly, basic arithmatic 
>literacy) and want to go back to the very black & white, flashy, 
>no-imagination-required CRPGs.

There's always an argument that many of the players of prior years 
wouldn't have gotten into the hobby with some of the current options 
available to them, either.  I'm sure the really astoundingly 
well-packed schedules of people in their teens and twenties now 
doesn't help; after all, it generally _is_ easier to fit in a couple 
hours for a MMORPG here and there than it is to fit in six on a 
Saturday night for an RPG for many people.



From leonbk at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  4 10:37:17 2008
From: leonbk at yahoo.com (Leon Kirshtein)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 15:37:17 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Society
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20080303092632.0351faa8@caprica.com>
Message-ID: <952896.62932.qm@web51711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

--- Wayne Shaw <shaw at caprica.com> wrote:
> >I would disagree.
> >
> >Spirit magic being readily available would make
> life
> >much easier for the common man, even outside of
> >healing magic. Spells like Strength, Vigor,
> >Mindspeech, Mobility and even Blade Sharp could
> >revolutionize everyday life.
> 
> The problem is, the common man doesn't have many of
> those available 
> at any given time; the costs and risks for learning
> them are high 
> enough most aren't going to know more than a point
> of one or two, so 
> any given person doesn't have access to any given
> spell.  Bladesharp 
> makes a woodsman or soldier's life a bit better, but
> they don't last 
> long enough to really help that much for the former;
> the net effect 
> just isn't going to be terribly visible.
> 
> That's the real issue; the availability and duration
> of most of them 
> just doesn't allow that much impact.  

I disagree. I do not see the cost or the danger to be
prohibitive and spirit matricies would become common
as they get passed from parents to children.

Leon


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From tcantine at incentre.net  Tue Mar  4 10:44:55 2008
From: tcantine at incentre.net (Tom Cantine)
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 16:44:55 -0700
Subject: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
In-Reply-To: <857904.68971.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <857904.68971.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <9b5a537e444a538d2b57a3572bd8c086@incentre.net>

I'm the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and  
everything.

42.


On 3-Mar-08, at 9:35 AM, Paul Cardwell wrote:

> My question wasn't how long gamers have been playing -
> I am a comparative newcomer to that.  My question was
> how old the players are.  Despite the stereotype that
> we are all teenagers or undergraduate college
> students, most are in the '30-40s range.  Still I know
> many are far older than that.
>
> CAR-PGa, the RPG research network of which I am Chair,
> averages late '40, and there is one in that group
> older than I (by a year).
>
> Paul Cardwell (75 this April 26)
>
>
> --- Stephen Posey <stephenlposey at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Paul Cardwell wrote:
>>> --- Anders Swenson <anders at california.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 07:42:31 -0600
>>>>  Styopa <styopa1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Maybe it's just a jaded 40-year old gamer
>> talking
>>>> (wow, have I really been
>>>>> 'gaming' for 30 years?
>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>> So have I, but I started when I was a little
>> older.
>>>> Lots moe time for gaming
>>>> when you're retired!
>>>>
>>>> --Anders
>>>
>>> I haven't quite had 30 years (but close) because I
>> was
>>> turned off by the arbitrary restrictions and acres
>> of
>>> charts of D&D then.  I didn't get into RPG until
>> 1982
>>> when I discovered RuneQuest.  On the other hand, I
>>> will be 75 near the end of April.  Any antiques
>> out
>>> there who beat that (there are bound to be).
>>>
>>> Paul Cardwell
>>
>> I started in 1977 with Original "White Box" D&D. So
>> I guess that
>> puts me at 30+ years in this stuff.
>>
>> Discovered RQ in '79 or so, and never looked back.
>>
>> Stephen Posey
>> stephenlposey at earthlink.net
>
>
>
>        
> _______________________________________________________________________ 
> _____________
> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> _______________________________________________
> RQ-Rules mailing list
> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
>



From shaw at caprica.com  Tue Mar  4 11:19:52 2008
From: shaw at caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 16:19:52 -0800
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Society
In-Reply-To: <952896.62932.qm@web51711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.1.20080303092632.0351faa8@caprica.com>
	<952896.62932.qm@web51711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.1.20080303161802.03494a88@caprica.com>


>I disagree. I do not see the cost or the danger to be
>prohibitive and spirit matricies would become common
>as they get passed from parents to children.

Spirit matrices are only available on the whole if people are making 
them, and that requires yet _another_ spirit spell.  As to the cost 
and danger--then you have a really different definition of how 
serious those are, given every time involves a spirit combat that can 
leave someone possessed, and the stated costs are  often weeks worth 
of many lower income people's resources.  For something in many cases 
that assists them modestly.



From gazza666 at gmail.com  Tue Mar  4 11:59:51 2008
From: gazza666 at gmail.com (Gary Sturgess)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:59:51 +0900
Subject: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
In-Reply-To: <9b5a537e444a538d2b57a3572bd8c086@incentre.net>
References: <857904.68971.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<9b5a537e444a538d2b57a3572bd8c086@incentre.net>
Message-ID: <9ebd81400803031659u41cf49faj8823e20cc4b21a4d@mail.gmail.com>

I'd have to concur that the number of younger tabletop gamers doesn't
seem to be growing. (Oh, I suppose: started in 1982 with Black Book
Traveller, and have mostly played Champions and D&D since; I'm now
35). I've seen even us older types go through RPG withdrawal for Magic
or WoW - granted, we did come back, but that's because we had the
prior experience of RPGs to know what we were missing. I've no doubt
that to someone who's never played anything but WoW they would have
trouble understanding why RQ round a table with pens and paper is so
much "better" (subjectively speaking).

Best hope is probably to raise your own kids and pass it along that way.
-- 
GAZZA


From aelarsen at mac.com  Tue Mar  4 12:11:37 2008
From: aelarsen at mac.com (Andrew Larsen)
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 19:11:37 -0600
Subject: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
In-Reply-To: <9ebd81400803031659u41cf49faj8823e20cc4b21a4d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C3F1FDE9.DC18%aelarsen@mac.com>

My experience has been quite different.  In Madison, where I lived for a
long time, there is a large contingent of table-top gamers who also do
live-action role playing (LARPing).  Not all LARPers table-top, but most of
the table-toppers I know have done some LARPing.
    For the record, I started with Empire of the Petal Throne and then D&D
in 1975 when I was 8 *(my brothers were in their teens, and they found EPT
before D&D).  I've been gaming ever since.

Andrew E. Larsen


On 3/3/08 6:59 PM, "Gary Sturgess" <gazza666 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'd have to concur that the number of younger tabletop gamers doesn't
> seem to be growing. (Oh, I suppose: started in 1982 with Black Book
> Traveller, and have mostly played Champions and D&D since; I'm now
> 35). I've seen even us older types go through RPG withdrawal for Magic
> or WoW - granted, we did come back, but that's because we had the
> prior experience of RPGs to know what we were missing. I've no doubt
> that to someone who's never played anything but WoW they would have
> trouble understanding why RQ round a table with pens and paper is so
> much "better" (subjectively speaking).
> 
> Best hope is probably to raise your own kids and pass it along that way.




From leonbk at yahoo.com  Tue Mar  4 12:12:32 2008
From: leonbk at yahoo.com (Leon Kirshtein)
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 17:12:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Society
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20080303161802.03494a88@caprica.com>
Message-ID: <964253.11189.qm@web51705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

--- Wayne Shaw <shaw at caprica.com> wrote:
> Spirit matrices are only available on the whole if
> people are making 
> them, and that requires yet _another_ spirit spell. 
> As to the cost 
> and danger--then you have a really different
> definition of how 
> serious those are, given every time involves a
> spirit combat that can 
> leave someone possessed, and the stated costs are 
> often weeks worth 
> of many lower income people's resources.  For
> something in many cases 
> that assists them modestly.

Having played RQ for years, I just do not see it that
way, and it has not been my experience. But, the topic
does revolve around the availability of magic in the
world. So, I think it would be fair to state that the
more available it is, the greater the impact it will
have on society.

Leon


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From postmaster at runequest.za.org  Tue Mar  4 17:28:19 2008
From: postmaster at runequest.za.org (Tony)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 08:28:19 +0200 (SAST)
Subject: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
In-Reply-To: <857904.68971.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <47CA0C4C.8010403@earthlink.net>
	<857904.68971.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <58310.196.8.104.37.1204612099.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org>

Paul Cardwell wrote:
> My question wasn't how long gamers have been playing -
> I am a comparative newcomer to that.  My question was
> how old the players are.  Despite the stereotype that
> we are all teenagers or undergraduate college
> students, most are in the '30-40s range.  Still I know
> many are far older than that.
>
>
Tony Den XXXVI (XVIII February MCMLXXII)


From bick10 at comcast.net  Wed Mar  5 00:18:11 2008
From: bick10 at comcast.net (Jim Bickmeyer)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 13:18:11 +0000
Subject: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
Message-ID: <030420081318.23246.47CD4C13000BA67B00005ACE2215593414CFCE050C070D@comcast.net>

> Paul Cardwell wrote:
> > My question wasn't how long gamers have been playing -
> > I am a comparative newcomer to that.  My question was
> > how old the players are.  Despite the stereotype that
> > we are all teenagers or undergraduate college
> > students, most are in the '30-40s range.  Still I know
> > many are far older than that.


Mark me down as 47.  
My players are 47, 47, 48, 48, 49

Yea, I was drawn in at High School and been gaming with the same group ever since.


From carpgachair at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  5 03:25:40 2008
From: carpgachair at yahoo.com (Paul Cardwell)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 08:25:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
In-Reply-To: <9ebd81400803031659u41cf49faj8823e20cc4b21a4d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <202206.24327.qm@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

--- Gary Sturgess <gazza666 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'd have to concur that the number of younger
> tabletop gamers doesn't
> seem to be growing. (Oh, I suppose: started in 1982
> with Black Book
> Traveller, and have mostly played Champions and D&D
> since; I'm now
> 35). I've seen even us older types go through RPG
> withdrawal for Magic
> or WoW - granted, we did come back, but that's
> because we had the
> prior experience of RPGs to know what we were
> missing. I've no doubt
> that to someone who's never played anything but WoW
> they would have
> trouble understanding why RQ round a table with pens
> and paper is so
> much "better" (subjectively speaking).
> 
> Best hope is probably to raise your own kids and
> pass it along that way.
> -- 
> GAZZA

The most blamed reason is the push toward (expensive)
computer graphics "games" and the resulting lack of
imagination training of the young.  If they can't see
it, they can't imagine it.  Therefore video is
considered by them to be superior to tabletop which
requires imagination they don't have.

In addition, video is bound by the software and this
brings in a lot of differences with TT.  The plot
becomes player against the software in a zero-sum
system rather than the players together against the
situation.  The narrowness of the plot (software
determined) versus a good live referee restricts the
solution to a set of right or wrong choices, making it
more a puzzle than a game.

One could even go conspiritorial on this in that the
skills of cooperation, thinking outside the box, etc.
of TT are not what the corporate rulers want the
citizenry to develop as it could threaten their power
(and income which funds that power).  Extreme, yes,
but substancial evidence can be produced.

Paul Cardwell


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From carpgachair at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  5 03:26:59 2008
From: carpgachair at yahoo.com (Paul Cardwell)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 08:26:59 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
In-Reply-To: <9b5a537e444a538d2b57a3572bd8c086@incentre.net>
Message-ID: <625327.69666.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

--- Tom Cantine <tcantine at incentre.net> wrote:

> I'm the answer to the ultimate question of life, the
> universe, and  
> everything.
> 
> 42.

Yeah, but for no more than a year!

Paul Cardwell


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Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping


From peter.brink at brinkdata.se  Wed Mar  5 03:51:39 2008
From: peter.brink at brinkdata.se (Peter Brink)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 17:51:39 +0100
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Society
In-Reply-To: <49487.158.165.144.181.1204329002.squirrel@webmail.efn.org>
References: <49487.158.165.144.181.1204329002.squirrel@webmail.efn.org>
Message-ID: <47CD7E1B.1050109@brinkdata.se>

royce at efn.org skrev:
>    My question:  Given the spells listed in the RQ III Magic Book, what
> are the societal implications?  How would the availability of these
> spells change lifestyles, life expectancies, politics, professions, and
> the like?  How would people with magic live differently from the real
> past?  (Would Bless Crops be the most important spell in the world?)

There's a book called "A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe", 
available at e23 (http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=XRP1002), that may 
be of interest when discussing the subject of magic and society. It's 
primarily targeted at a d20 audience but it does contains some 
interesting thoughts. It discusses such things as magic and the law, 
magic in everyday life at a manor etc. It's 167-pages, most of the 
contents are about the society of western Europe in the middle ages and 
it costs $ 12.00.

/Peter Brink


From peter.brink at brinkdata.se  Wed Mar  5 04:54:11 2008
From: peter.brink at brinkdata.se (Peter Brink)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 18:54:11 +0100
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Society
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20080303161802.03494a88@caprica.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.1.20080303092632.0351faa8@caprica.com>	<952896.62932.qm@web51711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<7.0.1.0.1.20080303161802.03494a88@caprica.com>
Message-ID: <47CD8CC3.7030909@brinkdata.se>

Wayne Shaw skrev:
> 
>> I disagree. I do not see the cost or the danger to be
>> prohibitive and spirit matricies would become common
>> as they get passed from parents to children.
> 
> Spirit matrices are only available on the whole if people are making 
> them, and that requires yet _another_ spirit spell.  As to the cost and 
> danger--then you have a really different definition of how serious those 
> are, given every time involves a spirit combat that can leave someone 
> possessed, and the stated costs are  often weeks worth of many lower 
> income people's resources.  For something in many cases that assists 
> them modestly.
> 

The usefulness of magic as such is probably not so important when 
discussing the impacts of magic on a magic using society.

One has to assume that if magic exists it has existed from very early on 
in history and has developed alongside the rest of society. The 
existence of it will therefore influence society on all levels. We know 
from our own history that the best technology available has not always 
been used (the Roman empire being a good example). The use of Iron is a 
good example. Iron tools are in fact not a necessarily better than 
copper or bronze tools, some flint tools are better than their iron 
counterparts (cutting edges and arrow heads spring to mind)! The 
ownership of iron tools were prestigious though, and man has always been 
inclined to spend lots of resources to improve (or maintain) his social 
status.

Since magic will always remain somewhat exclusive, one could postulate 
that the possession of magic skills and (even more) of magic items would 
become important from a social status POW. The social value of magic 
would certainly affect society and would also make people willing to 
spend the resources necessary to get magic. All IMHO of course...

/Peter Brink


From steve at limitedchaos.com  Wed Mar  5 05:06:25 2008
From: steve at limitedchaos.com (steve at limitedchaos.com)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 11:06:25 -0700
Subject: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
Message-ID: <20080304110625.6f055db5b52674836533fcb6c06185d4.758fb5530d.wbe@email.secureserver.net>

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From styopa1 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  5 05:20:35 2008
From: styopa1 at gmail.com (Styopa)
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 12:20:35 -0600
Subject: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
In-Reply-To: <20080304110625.6f055db5b52674836533fcb6c06185d4.758fb5530d.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
References: <20080304110625.6f055db5b52674836533fcb6c06185d4.758fb5530d.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <56e64e7a0803041020o52457dcewea4c47ae63458bbd@mail.gmail.com>

Wow, how ironic.  R.I.P. Gary.  He'd probably have seen the humor in our
talking about old-timers just as he checks out.

On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 12:06 PM, <steve at limitedchaos.com> wrote:

> I see I am going to have to revise my listing of still-living RPG
> old-timers.
>
> Gary Gygax passed away at 1 AM this morning.
>
> RIP Gary.
>
> Steve Perrin
>
> _______________________________________________
> RQ-Rules mailing list
> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
>
>
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From shaw at caprica.com  Wed Mar  5 08:05:43 2008
From: shaw at caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 13:05:43 -0800
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Society
In-Reply-To: <964253.11189.qm@web51705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.1.20080303161802.03494a88@caprica.com>
	<964253.11189.qm@web51705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.1.20080304130346.03481870@caprica.com>

At 05:12 PM 3/3/2008, you wrote:
>--- Wayne Shaw <shaw at caprica.com> wrote:
> > Spirit matrices are only available on the whole if
> > people are making
> > them, and that requires yet _another_ spirit spell.
> > As to the cost
> > and danger--then you have a really different
> > definition of how
> > serious those are, given every time involves a
> > spirit combat that can
> > leave someone possessed, and the stated costs are
> > often weeks worth
> > of many lower income people's resources.  For
> > something in many cases
> > that assists them modestly.
>
>Having played RQ for years, I just do not see it that
>way, and it has not been my experience. But, the topic
>does revolve around the availability of magic in the
>world. So, I think it would be fair to state that the
>more available it is, the greater the impact it will
>have on society.

I wouldn't argue with that.

As to the other--I think you're conflating the situation with PCs 
with the world as a whole, and that's a huge mistake; most PCs have 
far more money and considerably more magical backup (so that 
surviving a bad spirit combat isn't as big a problem) than anyone but 
the rich in the setting.  If you want to claim the nobility and other 
rich and well connected characters could have considerable magic, I 
wouldn't argue at all, but as the rules are, its a risky and 
expensive process for rank and file craftsmen, farmers and even soldiers.



From shaw at caprica.com  Wed Mar  5 08:18:01 2008
From: shaw at caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 13:18:01 -0800
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Society
In-Reply-To: <47CD8CC3.7030909@brinkdata.se>
References: <7.0.1.0.1.20080303092632.0351faa8@caprica.com>
	<952896.62932.qm@web51711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<7.0.1.0.1.20080303161802.03494a88@caprica.com>
	<47CD8CC3.7030909@brinkdata.se>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.1.20080304131036.03431db8@caprica.com>

At 09:54 AM 3/4/2008, you wrote:
>Wayne Shaw skrev:
>>
>>>I disagree. I do not see the cost or the danger to be
>>>prohibitive and spirit matricies would become common
>>>as they get passed from parents to children.
>>Spirit matrices are only available on the whole if people are 
>>making them, and that requires yet _another_ spirit spell.  As to 
>>the cost and danger--then you have a really different definition of 
>>how serious those are, given every time involves a spirit combat 
>>that can leave someone possessed, and the stated costs are  often 
>>weeks worth of many lower income people's resources.  For something 
>>in many cases that assists them modestly.
>
>The usefulness of magic as such is probably not so important when 
>discussing the impacts of magic on a magic using society.
>
>One has to assume that if magic exists it has existed from very 
>early on in history and has developed alongside the rest of society. 
>The existence of it will therefore influence society on all levels. 
>We know from our own history that the best technology available has 
>not always been used (the Roman empire being a good example).

I don't deny any of this, but the degree of impact seems to turn on 
about three things: The power of the magic, the commonality of the 
magic, and how important what it does is to society.  For the most 
part, RQ magic is of, at most, modest power (most spirit spells less 
so, barring things that there's simply no mundane way to do; that's 
why I consider healing magic much more important than, say, 
Bladesharp or Strength, that modestly improve capability for quite 
short periods) including rather short duration; its of fairly high 
commonality, but that simply means a lot of people have a point or 
two, rather than there being a significant number of people with 
large amounts of it; and outside of healing and some of the 
specialized divine spells (most of which aren't in the core RQ book, 
so may be almost irrelevant to the gentleman asking the question 
originally) rather few are of great importance, again, because they 
at most modestly improve abilities already present.


>The use of Iron is a good example. Iron tools are in fact not a 
>necessarily better than copper or bronze tools, some flint tools are 
>better than their iron counterparts (cutting edges and arrow heads 
>spring to mind)! The ownership of iron tools were prestigious 
>though, and man has always been inclined to spend lots of resources 
>to improve (or maintain) his social status.

When he has the luxury to do so.  That's anything but a given for 
large parts of most populaces throughout much of history.


>Since magic will always remain somewhat exclusive, one could 
>postulate that the possession of magic skills and (even more) of 
>magic items would become important from a social status POW. The 
>social value of magic would certainly affect society and would also 
>make people willing to spend the resources necessary to get magic. 
>All IMHO of course...

The problem, as I noted, is that the most accessible magic in the 
system--spirit magic--has a cost not just in resources (and that 
resource cost is quite high for the benefit outside of a few 
selective cases) but there's an active counter-incentive to pursue 
more magic than you need in the form of the risk of possession 
acquiring it (this is not an issue with spirit magic originating from 
divine sources, but those also tend to have a narrow set of available 
spells, so the net effect is much the same).





From carpgachair at yahoo.com  Thu Mar  6 05:51:53 2008
From: carpgachair at yahoo.com (Paul Cardwell)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 10:51:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
In-Reply-To: <56e64e7a0803041020o52457dcewea4c47ae63458bbd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <396918.67513.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

--- Styopa <styopa1 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Wow, how ironic.  R.I.P. Gary.  He'd probably have
> seen the humor in our
> talking about old-timers just as he checks out.

Probably.  I know I got a chuckle out of your post.

Paul Cardwell 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 



From sunwolfek12 at sbcglobal.net  Thu Mar  6 16:51:33 2008
From: sunwolfek12 at sbcglobal.net (Andre Powell)
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 21:51:33 -0800
Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: Gygax passes away
References: <20080304162550.940E014C67C9@mini.thinbits.net>
Message-ID: <001201c87f4e$22fcd230$4101a8c0@home>

Odd to be talking about this and have Gary pass away during the conversation 
:-P

Rest in peace and thanks for gettin' the ball rolling!

Andre'

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <rq-rules-request at crashbox.com>
To: <rq-rules at crashbox.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 8:25 AM
Subject: RQ-Rules Digest, Vol 30, Issue 4


> Send RQ-Rules mailing list submissions to
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>
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> than "Re: Contents of RQ-Rules digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Been gaming a while! (Wayne Shaw)
>   2. Re: Spells & Society (Leon Kirshtein)
>   3. Re: Been gaming a while! (Tom Cantine)
>   4. Re: Spells & Society (Wayne Shaw)
>   5. Re: Been gaming a while! (Gary Sturgess)
>   6. Re: Been gaming a while! (Andrew Larsen)
>   7. Re: Spells & Society (Leon Kirshtein)
>   8. Re: Been gaming a while! (Tony)
>   9. Re: Been gaming a while! (Jim Bickmeyer)
>  10. Re: Been gaming a while! (Paul Cardwell)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 11:31:32 -0800
> From: Wayne Shaw <shaw at caprica.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
> To: "Discussion of RuneQuest rules." <rq-rules at crashbox.com>
> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.1.20080303112949.0353fe98 at caprica.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
>
>>Not to sound totally superficial or anything (and I think my
>>generational distance can define that I'm not trying to flatter MY
>>generation), but from my elder perspective, the ones I see playing
>>wargames and RPGs are quite clearly the more intelligent of their
>>peers.  Maybe it's my sucky DM'ing, certainly, but I find a lot of
>>today's youth lack the attention span (or sadly, basic arithmatic
>>literacy) and want to go back to the very black & white, flashy,
>>no-imagination-required CRPGs.
>
> There's always an argument that many of the players of prior years
> wouldn't have gotten into the hobby with some of the current options
> available to them, either.  I'm sure the really astoundingly
> well-packed schedules of people in their teens and twenties now
> doesn't help; after all, it generally _is_ easier to fit in a couple
> hours for a MMORPG here and there than it is to fit in six on a
> Saturday night for an RPG for many people.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 15:37:17 -0800 (PST)
> From: Leon Kirshtein <leonbk at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Spells & Society
> To: "Discussion of RuneQuest rules." <rq-rules at crashbox.com>
> Message-ID: <952896.62932.qm at web51711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> --- Wayne Shaw <shaw at caprica.com> wrote:
>> >I would disagree.
>> >
>> >Spirit magic being readily available would make
>> life
>> >much easier for the common man, even outside of
>> >healing magic. Spells like Strength, Vigor,
>> >Mindspeech, Mobility and even Blade Sharp could
>> >revolutionize everyday life.
>>
>> The problem is, the common man doesn't have many of
>> those available
>> at any given time; the costs and risks for learning
>> them are high
>> enough most aren't going to know more than a point
>> of one or two, so
>> any given person doesn't have access to any given
>> spell.  Bladesharp
>> makes a woodsman or soldier's life a bit better, but
>> they don't last
>> long enough to really help that much for the former;
>> the net effect
>> just isn't going to be terribly visible.
>>
>> That's the real issue; the availability and duration
>> of most of them
>> just doesn't allow that much impact.
>
> I disagree. I do not see the cost or the danger to be
> prohibitive and spirit matricies would become common
> as they get passed from parents to children.
>
> Leon
>
>
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now. 
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 16:44:55 -0700
> From: Tom Cantine <tcantine at incentre.net>
> Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
> To: "Discussion of RuneQuest rules." <rq-rules at crashbox.com>
> Message-ID: <9b5a537e444a538d2b57a3572bd8c086 at incentre.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> I'm the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe, and
> everything.
>
> 42.
>
>
> On 3-Mar-08, at 9:35 AM, Paul Cardwell wrote:
>
>> My question wasn't how long gamers have been playing -
>> I am a comparative newcomer to that.  My question was
>> how old the players are.  Despite the stereotype that
>> we are all teenagers or undergraduate college
>> students, most are in the '30-40s range.  Still I know
>> many are far older than that.
>>
>> CAR-PGa, the RPG research network of which I am Chair,
>> averages late '40, and there is one in that group
>> older than I (by a year).
>>
>> Paul Cardwell (75 this April 26)
>>
>>
>> --- Stephen Posey <stephenlposey at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Paul Cardwell wrote:
>>>> --- Anders Swenson <anders at california.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 07:42:31 -0600
>>>>>  Styopa <styopa1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Maybe it's just a jaded 40-year old gamer
>>> talking
>>>>> (wow, have I really been
>>>>>> 'gaming' for 30 years?
>>>>> [snip]
>>>>>
>>>>> So have I, but I started when I was a little
>>> older.
>>>>> Lots moe time for gaming
>>>>> when you're retired!
>>>>>
>>>>> --Anders
>>>>
>>>> I haven't quite had 30 years (but close) because I
>>> was
>>>> turned off by the arbitrary restrictions and acres
>>> of
>>>> charts of D&D then.  I didn't get into RPG until
>>> 1982
>>>> when I discovered RuneQuest.  On the other hand, I
>>>> will be 75 near the end of April.  Any antiques
>>> out
>>>> there who beat that (there are bound to be).
>>>>
>>>> Paul Cardwell
>>>
>>> I started in 1977 with Original "White Box" D&D. So
>>> I guess that
>>> puts me at 30+ years in this stuff.
>>>
>>> Discovered RQ in '79 or so, and never looked back.
>>>
>>> Stephen Posey
>>> stephenlposey at earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> _____________
>> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
>> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>> _______________________________________________
>> RQ-Rules mailing list
>> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
>> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 16:19:52 -0800
> From: Wayne Shaw <shaw at caprica.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Spells & Society
> To: "Discussion of RuneQuest rules." <rq-rules at crashbox.com>
> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.1.20080303161802.03494a88 at caprica.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
>
>>I disagree. I do not see the cost or the danger to be
>>prohibitive and spirit matricies would become common
>>as they get passed from parents to children.
>
> Spirit matrices are only available on the whole if people are making
> them, and that requires yet _another_ spirit spell.  As to the cost
> and danger--then you have a really different definition of how
> serious those are, given every time involves a spirit combat that can
> leave someone possessed, and the stated costs are  often weeks worth
> of many lower income people's resources.  For something in many cases
> that assists them modestly.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:59:51 +0900
> From: "Gary Sturgess" <gazza666 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
> To: "Discussion of RuneQuest rules." <rq-rules at crashbox.com>
> Message-ID:
> <9ebd81400803031659u41cf49faj8823e20cc4b21a4d at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I'd have to concur that the number of younger tabletop gamers doesn't
> seem to be growing. (Oh, I suppose: started in 1982 with Black Book
> Traveller, and have mostly played Champions and D&D since; I'm now
> 35). I've seen even us older types go through RPG withdrawal for Magic
> or WoW - granted, we did come back, but that's because we had the
> prior experience of RPGs to know what we were missing. I've no doubt
> that to someone who's never played anything but WoW they would have
> trouble understanding why RQ round a table with pens and paper is so
> much "better" (subjectively speaking).
>
> Best hope is probably to raise your own kids and pass it along that way.
> -- 
> GAZZA
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2008 19:11:37 -0600
> From: Andrew Larsen <aelarsen at mac.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
> To: Rq-Rules List <rq-rules at crashbox.com>
> Message-ID: <C3F1FDE9.DC18%aelarsen at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> My experience has been quite different.  In Madison, where I lived for a
> long time, there is a large contingent of table-top gamers who also do
> live-action role playing (LARPing).  Not all LARPers table-top, but most 
> of
> the table-toppers I know have done some LARPing.
>    For the record, I started with Empire of the Petal Throne and then D&D
> in 1975 when I was 8 *(my brothers were in their teens, and they found EPT
> before D&D).  I've been gaming ever since.
>
> Andrew E. Larsen
>
>
> On 3/3/08 6:59 PM, "Gary Sturgess" <gazza666 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'd have to concur that the number of younger tabletop gamers doesn't
>> seem to be growing. (Oh, I suppose: started in 1982 with Black Book
>> Traveller, and have mostly played Champions and D&D since; I'm now
>> 35). I've seen even us older types go through RPG withdrawal for Magic
>> or WoW - granted, we did come back, but that's because we had the
>> prior experience of RPGs to know what we were missing. I've no doubt
>> that to someone who's never played anything but WoW they would have
>> trouble understanding why RQ round a table with pens and paper is so
>> much "better" (subjectively speaking).
>>
>> Best hope is probably to raise your own kids and pass it along that way.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 17:12:32 -0800 (PST)
> From: Leon Kirshtein <leonbk at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Spells & Society
> To: "Discussion of RuneQuest rules." <rq-rules at crashbox.com>
> Message-ID: <964253.11189.qm at web51705.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> --- Wayne Shaw <shaw at caprica.com> wrote:
>> Spirit matrices are only available on the whole if
>> people are making
>> them, and that requires yet _another_ spirit spell.
>> As to the cost
>> and danger--then you have a really different
>> definition of how
>> serious those are, given every time involves a
>> spirit combat that can
>> leave someone possessed, and the stated costs are
>> often weeks worth
>> of many lower income people's resources.  For
>> something in many cases
>> that assists them modestly.
>
> Having played RQ for years, I just do not see it that
> way, and it has not been my experience. But, the topic
> does revolve around the availability of magic in the
> world. So, I think it would be fair to state that the
> more available it is, the greater the impact it will
> have on society.
>
> Leon
>
>
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now. 
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 08:28:19 +0200 (SAST)
> From: "Tony" <postmaster at runequest.za.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
> To: "Discussion of RuneQuest rules." <rq-rules at crashbox.com>
> Message-ID:
> <58310.196.8.104.37.1204612099.squirrel at wwm.runequest.za.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Paul Cardwell wrote:
>> My question wasn't how long gamers have been playing -
>> I am a comparative newcomer to that.  My question was
>> how old the players are.  Despite the stereotype that
>> we are all teenagers or undergraduate college
>> students, most are in the '30-40s range.  Still I know
>> many are far older than that.
>>
>>
> Tony Den XXXVI (XVIII February MCMLXXII)
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2008 13:18:11 +0000
> From: bick10 at comcast.net (Jim Bickmeyer)
> Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
> To: "Discussion of RuneQuest rules." <rq-rules at crashbox.com>
> Message-ID:
> <030420081318.23246.47CD4C13000BA67B00005ACE2215593414CFCE050C070D at comcast.net>
>
>
>> Paul Cardwell wrote:
>> > My question wasn't how long gamers have been playing -
>> > I am a comparative newcomer to that.  My question was
>> > how old the players are.  Despite the stereotype that
>> > we are all teenagers or undergraduate college
>> > students, most are in the '30-40s range.  Still I know
>> > many are far older than that.
>
>
> Mark me down as 47.
> My players are 47, 47, 48, 48, 49
>
> Yea, I was drawn in at High School and been gaming with the same group 
> ever since.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 08:25:40 -0800 (PST)
> From: Paul Cardwell <carpgachair at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
> To: "Discussion of RuneQuest rules." <rq-rules at crashbox.com>
> Message-ID: <202206.24327.qm at web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> --- Gary Sturgess <gazza666 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'd have to concur that the number of younger
>> tabletop gamers doesn't
>> seem to be growing. (Oh, I suppose: started in 1982
>> with Black Book
>> Traveller, and have mostly played Champions and D&D
>> since; I'm now
>> 35). I've seen even us older types go through RPG
>> withdrawal for Magic
>> or WoW - granted, we did come back, but that's
>> because we had the
>> prior experience of RPGs to know what we were
>> missing. I've no doubt
>> that to someone who's never played anything but WoW
>> they would have
>> trouble understanding why RQ round a table with pens
>> and paper is so
>> much "better" (subjectively speaking).
>>
>> Best hope is probably to raise your own kids and
>> pass it along that way.
>> -- 
>> GAZZA
>
> The most blamed reason is the push toward (expensive)
> computer graphics "games" and the resulting lack of
> imagination training of the young.  If they can't see
> it, they can't imagine it.  Therefore video is
> considered by them to be superior to tabletop which
> requires imagination they don't have.
>
> In addition, video is bound by the software and this
> brings in a lot of differences with TT.  The plot
> becomes player against the software in a zero-sum
> system rather than the players together against the
> situation.  The narrowness of the plot (software
> determined) versus a good live referee restricts the
> solution to a set of right or wrong choices, making it
> more a puzzle than a game.
>
> One could even go conspiritorial on this in that the
> skills of cooperation, thinking outside the box, etc.
> of TT are not what the corporate rulers want the
> citizenry to develop as it could threaten their power
> (and income which funds that power).  Extreme, yes,
> but substancial evidence can be produced.
>
> Paul Cardwell
>
>
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now. 
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> RQ-Rules mailing list
> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
>
>
> End of RQ-Rules Digest, Vol 30, Issue 4
> *************************************** 



From postmaster at runequest.za.org  Thu Mar  6 17:12:11 2008
From: postmaster at runequest.za.org (Tony)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 08:12:11 +0200 (SAST)
Subject: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
In-Reply-To: <20080304110625.6f055db5b52674836533fcb6c06185d4.758fb5530d.wbe@email.
	secureserver.net>
References: <20080304110625.6f055db5b52674836533fcb6c06185d4.758fb5530d.wbe@email.secureserver.net>
Message-ID: <34335.196.8.104.37.1204783931.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org>

steve at limitedchaos.com wrote:
> <html><body><div>I see I am going to have to revise my listing of
> still-living RPG old-timers.</div>
> <div>&nbsp;</div>
> <div>Gary Gygax passed away at 1 AM this morning.</div>
>
Thats bad news! He was quite an icon in the game industry.


From phil.hibbs at capgemini.com  Fri Mar  7 00:33:50 2008
From: phil.hibbs at capgemini.com (Hibbs, Phil)
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 13:33:50 -0000
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Society
In-Reply-To: <49487.158.165.144.181.1204329002.squirrel@webmail.efn.org>
References: <49487.158.165.144.181.1204329002.squirrel@webmail.efn.org>
Message-ID: <28FEE77FA0D069428DBB715915864EE60A735148@MISSBHXVS02.uki.capgemini.com>


>My question:  Given the spells listed in the RQ III Magic Book, what
>are the societal implications? 

That depends on availability - RQ adventuring parties typically have loads
of magic and players think of it as their right to have whatever spirit
magic they want. This is not the case in "real Glorantha", for instance, on
which the magic system is based. Magical ability is a personal spiritual
journey, an army general can't just have all his troops learn Detect Enemy,
Bladesharp, and Healing just because he orders it. Sorcery is pretty limited
if you are not an apprentice, commoners only learn Intensity I think and
probably only get one or two spells but it is more systematic, so an army
could be more organised about its use of sorcery than it could spirit magic.

Phil Hibbs
-- 


Capgemini is a trading name used by the Capgemini Group of companies which includes Capgemini UK plc, a company registered in England and Wales (number 943935) whose registered office is at No. 1 Forge End, Woking, Surrey, GU21 6DB. 


This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient,  you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate,  distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this  message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all  copies of this message.




From shaw at caprica.com  Fri Mar  7 03:56:33 2008
From: shaw at caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 08:56:33 -0800
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Society
In-Reply-To: <28FEE77FA0D069428DBB715915864EE60A735148@MISSBHXVS02.uki.c
	apgemini.com>
References: <49487.158.165.144.181.1204329002.squirrel@webmail.efn.org>
	<28FEE77FA0D069428DBB715915864EE60A735148@MISSBHXVS02.uki.capgemini.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.1.20080306085414.035380b0@caprica.com>

At 05:33 AM 3/6/2008, you wrote:

> >My question:  Given the spells listed in the RQ III Magic Book, what
> >are the societal implications?
>
>That depends on availability - RQ adventuring parties typically have loads
>of magic and players think of it as their right to have whatever spirit
>magic they want. This is not the case in "real Glorantha", for instance, on

Even by the standards of the RQ3 book, PCs have an awrful lot of 
magic compared to the typical character, as demonstrated by the 
assumed starting magic even characters with otherwise pretty 
impressive skills get.  Outside of the occasional magical specialist, 
its just not a lot.



From vikingjarl at gmail.com  Fri Mar  7 05:36:34 2008
From: vikingjarl at gmail.com (Sven Lugar)
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 10:36:34 -0800
Subject: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
In-Reply-To: <351.45706.qm@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <351.45706.qm@web33501.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47D039B2.3000404@gmail.com>

I'm not quite as old but I'm at 50 years in historical gaming as of Yule 
2008
Skaal,
Sven

Paul Cardwell wrote:
> --- Anders Swenson <anders at california.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 07:42:31 -0600
>>  Styopa <styopa1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> Maybe it's just a jaded 40-year old gamer talking
>>>       
>> (wow, have I really been
>>     
>>> 'gaming' for 30 years?  
>>>       
>> [snip]
>>
>> So have I, but I started when I was a little older.
>> Lots moe time for gaming
>> when you're retired!
>>
>> --Anders
>>     
>
> I haven't quite had 30 years (but close) because I was
> turned off by the arbitrary restrictions and acres of
> charts of D&D then.  I didn't get into RPG until 1982
> when I discovered RuneQuest.  On the other hand, I
> will be 75 near the end of April.  Any antiques out
> there who beat that (there are bound to be).
>
> Paul Cardwell
>
>
>       ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> _______________________________________________
> RQ-Rules mailing list
> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
>
>   
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From ericla at ultranet.com  Fri Mar  7 14:05:50 2008
From: ericla at ultranet.com (Eric Leventhal Arthen)
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 22:05:50 -0500
Subject: [Rq-rules] Been gaming a while!
In-Reply-To: <9ebd81400803031659u41cf49faj8823e20cc4b21a4d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <857904.68971.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<9b5a537e444a538d2b57a3572bd8c086@incentre.net>
	<9ebd81400803031659u41cf49faj8823e20cc4b21a4d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47D0B10E.8050809@ultranet.com>

I'm 46 and have been gaming since '79. Three of my regular players are a 
couple of years older than me, then one in her 30s and one who is 16.

<<Best hope is probably to raise your own kids and pass it along that 
way. >>

Yes that works. My son, a 'nephew' and two son's of one of my co-players 
are all into FRP's - including RQ. They play various systems. They also 
play LARPs and computer games. I don't think any of them are into 
on-line gaming. They are in the 16-23yr old range, and have brought some 
of their friends into it.

Also, I find that the world I've developed and run all these years is 
one of the places they like to run in, and to create some of their own 
games in.

And on a separate topic,  as per the calendar on Gwenthia, my worlds 
(Metloran & Bisloran) have an 8 day week for the Eight greater gods. One 
has a 384 day year (4season*12week*8day). The other is a larger world 
without a moon, but with a year that is 4 times as long. (Must be less 
dense since the gravity is not appreciably different - but the sea 
jouneys are much longer.) Over 400 days of pretty good, warmish weather 
and then a really nasty winter. They have 'front' doors on the second or 
even third floor for when the snow gets too deep. And I partly justify 
the civilizations being able to store enough food for long enough and 
warmth to survive those winters to the effects of Magic on society.

-Eric


On 3/3/2008 7:59 PM, Gary Sturgess wrote:
> I'd have to concur that the number of younger tabletop gamers doesn't
> seem to be growing. (Oh, I suppose: started in 1982 with Black Book
> Traveller, and have mostly played Champions and D&D since; I'm now
> 35). I've seen even us older types go through RPG withdrawal for Magic
> or WoW - granted, we did come back, but that's because we had the
> prior experience of RPGs to know what we were missing. I've no doubt
> that to someone who's never played anything but WoW they would have
> trouble understanding why RQ round a table with pens and paper is so
> much "better" (subjectively speaking).
>
> Best hope is probably to raise your own kids and pass it along that way.
>   


From jurrubin at gmail.com  Sat Mar  8 02:57:23 2008
From: jurrubin at gmail.com (David Smart)
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 09:57:23 -0600
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Societ
In-Reply-To: <952896.62932.qm@web51711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.1.20080303092632.0351faa8@caprica.com>
	<952896.62932.qm@web51711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1c92296e0803070757h5545bd97n2e632cc85be2d924@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 5:37 PM, Leon Kirshtein <leonbk at yahoo.com> wrote:

> <snip>
> I disagree. I do not see the cost or the danger to be
> prohibitive and spirit matricies would become common
> as they get passed from parents to children.
>
>
Leon, you bring up a good point. Cost would have a big impact on
availability. I seem to recall that daily income for low-end producers in a
RQ-style economy is measured in copper pieces while cost of high-end spells
is on the order of hundreds of silver..at least for sorcery. Not only must
spells be considered worth the cost and of sufficient duration to obtain the
desired result(s) but the people wanting the spell must have the means to
pay for it.

An indentured farmer who deals in grains and sees actual silver coinage only
in the hands of nobility once a year at a fair may want that nice Divine
spell that will boost his field output and consider it well worth the money
but will be forced to just keep on wishing.

During world development, the creation or lack of a merchant-based
middle-class will have a dramatic effect not only on medieval and ancient
world economies but also on who can afford to use magic..as long as spell
use is tied to economics.
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From shaw at caprica.com  Sat Mar  8 04:01:02 2008
From: shaw at caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 09:01:02 -0800
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Societ
In-Reply-To: <1c92296e0803070757h5545bd97n2e632cc85be2d924@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <7.0.1.0.1.20080303092632.0351faa8@caprica.com>
	<952896.62932.qm@web51711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<1c92296e0803070757h5545bd97n2e632cc85be2d924@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.1.20080307085836.03484688@caprica.com>

At 07:57 AM 3/7/2008, you wrote:


>On Mon, Mar 3, 2008 at 5:37 PM, Leon Kirshtein 
><<mailto:leonbk at yahoo.com>leonbk at yahoo.com> wrote:
><snip>
>I disagree. I do not see the cost or the danger to be
>prohibitive and spirit matricies would become common
>as they get passed from parents to children.
>
>
>Leon, you bring up a good point. Cost would have a big impact on 
>availability. I seem to recall that daily income for low-end 
>producers in a RQ-style economy is measured in copper pieces while 
>cost of high-end spells is on the order of hundreds of silver..at 
>least for sorcery. Not only must spells be considered worth the cost 
>and of sufficient duration to obtain the desired result(s) but the 
>people wanting the spell must have the means to pay for it.

In a way.  As I recall, the bottom of the economic scale was listed 
as a silver piece a week.  Even a 1 point spirit spell is ten weeks 
of work for such a person (and as I recall, that 1 silver is not in 
addition to cost of living).


>An indentured farmer who deals in grains and sees actual silver 
>coinage only in the hands of nobility once a year at a fair may want 
>that nice Divine spell that will boost his field output and consider 
>it well worth the money but will be forced to just keep on wishing.

Well, I'd assume that contributions to a church or shaman of food 
stuffs do the job here too, but there's still the issue of how much 
he has to spare.


>During world development, the creation or lack of a merchant-based 
>middle-class will have a dramatic effect not only on medieval and 
>ancient world economies but also on who can afford to use magic..as 
>long as spell use is tied to economics.

Its hard to picture except in the cases where magic use is intrinsic 
to everyone, how it couldn't be to some extent; almost every other 
resource is (though sometimes in round-about ways).
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From postmaster at runequest.za.org  Mon Mar 10 16:46:52 2008
From: postmaster at runequest.za.org (Tony)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 07:46:52 +0200 (SAST)
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Societ
In-Reply-To: <1c92296e0803070757h5545bd97n2e632cc85be2d924@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.1.20080303092632.0351faa8@caprica.com>
	<952896.62932.qm@web51711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<1c92296e0803070757h5545bd97n2e632cc85be2d924@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <29545.196.8.104.37.1205128012.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org>

David Smart wrote:

>>
> Leon, you bring up a good point. Cost would have a big impact on
> availability. I seem to recall that daily income for low-end producers in
> a
> RQ-style economy is measured in copper pieces while cost of high-end
> spells
> is on the order of hundreds of silver..at least for sorcery. Not only must
> spells be considered worth the cost and of sufficient duration to obtain
> the
> desired result(s) but the people wanting the spell must have the means to
> pay for it.
>
> An indentured farmer who deals in grains and sees actual silver coinage
> only
> in the hands of nobility once a year at a fair may want that nice Divine
> spell that will boost his field output and consider it well worth the
> money
> but will be forced to just keep on wishing.
>
> During world development, the creation or lack of a merchant-based
> middle-class will have a dramatic effect not only on medieval and ancient
> world economies but also on who can afford to use magic..as long as spell
> use is tied to economics.

Ah, thats why "The King is the Land". Its his duty to ensure corps are
blessed etc, which in RQ form should IMO be based on some sort or
patronage of earts goddess type cult and whichever rituals (and moneys) he
is called upon to deliver.


From jurrubin at gmail.com  Tue Mar 11 03:42:19 2008
From: jurrubin at gmail.com (David Smart)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 11:42:19 -0500
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Societ
In-Reply-To: <29545.196.8.104.37.1205128012.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org>
References: <7.0.1.0.1.20080303092632.0351faa8@caprica.com>
	<952896.62932.qm@web51711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<1c92296e0803070757h5545bd97n2e632cc85be2d924@mail.gmail.com>
	<29545.196.8.104.37.1205128012.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org>
Message-ID: <1c92296e0803100942u1c624bb4n942deb094274c16a@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 12:46 AM, Tony <postmaster at runequest.za.org> wrote:

>
> Ah, thats why "The King is the Land". Its his duty to ensure corps are
> blessed etc, which in RQ form should IMO be based on some sort or
> patronage of earts goddess type cult and whichever rituals (and moneys) he
> is called upon to deliver.


Yeesh! Sounds like the beginnings of the politics between the kings of
England and France and the Church in Rome.
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From darthvogel at hotmail.com  Tue Mar 11 15:44:31 2008
From: darthvogel at hotmail.com (Fred Vogel)
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 23:44:31 -0500
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Societ
In-Reply-To: <1c92296e0803100942u1c624bb4n942deb094274c16a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.1.20080303092632.0351faa8@caprica.com>
	<952896.62932.qm@web51711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<1c92296e0803070757h5545bd97n2e632cc85be2d924@mail.gmail.com>
	<29545.196.8.104.37.1205128012.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org> 
	<1c92296e0803100942u1c624bb4n942deb094274c16a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY129-W383E1727AFBC156EB53B9D30F0@phx.gbl>


The only blessings kings ever offered to the land was that of taxation!


Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 11:42:19 -0500From: jurrubin at gmail.comTo: rq-rules at crashbox.comSubject: Re: [Rq-rules] Spells & SocietOn Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 12:46 AM, Tony <postmaster at runequest.za.org> wrote:


Ah, thats why "The King is the Land". Its his duty to ensure corps areblessed etc, which in RQ form should IMO be based on some sort orpatronage of earts goddess type cult and whichever rituals (and moneys) heis called upon to deliver.Yeesh! Sounds like the beginnings of the politics between the kings of England and France and the Church in Rome.
_________________________________________________________________
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http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx
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From postmaster at runequest.za.org  Tue Mar 11 17:02:20 2008
From: postmaster at runequest.za.org (Tony)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 08:02:20 +0200 (SAST)
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Societ
In-Reply-To: <1c92296e0803100942u1c624bb4n942deb094274c16a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.1.20080303092632.0351faa8@caprica.com>
	<952896.62932.qm@web51711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<1c92296e0803070757h5545bd97n2e632cc85be2d924@mail.gmail.com>
	<29545.196.8.104.37.1205128012.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org>
	<1c92296e0803100942u1c624bb4n942deb094274c16a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <63949.196.8.104.37.1205215340.squirrel@mail.wack.co.za>

David Smart wrote:

>
>
> Yeesh! Sounds like the beginnings of the politics between the kings of
> England and France and the Church in Rome.
>
Pretty much I suppose. I was more thinking a it older, kinda Uther
endragon time, but you make a good point.


From styopa1 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 11 23:03:38 2008
From: styopa1 at gmail.com (Styopa)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:03:38 -0500
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Socie
In-Reply-To: <BAY129-W383E1727AFBC156EB53B9D30F0@phx.gbl>
References: <7.0.1.0.1.20080303092632.0351faa8@caprica.com>
	<952896.62932.qm@web51711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<1c92296e0803070757h5545bd97n2e632cc85be2d924@mail.gmail.com>
	<29545.196.8.104.37.1205128012.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org>
	<1c92296e0803100942u1c624bb4n942deb094274c16a@mail.gmail.com>
	<BAY129-W383E1727AFBC156EB53B9D30F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <56e64e7a0803110503r78489697tb6a095353b354a62@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah, what did the Romans ever give us?
Seriously, you're just being ironic, right?  There are PLENTY of reasons
that kings are the most successful form of government in pre-technological
eras.  It's non-trivial that just about every post-stone-age society
developed some sort of autocratic leadership centered on an individual.

On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 11:44 PM, Fred Vogel <darthvogel at hotmail.com> wrote:

>  The only blessings kings ever offered to the land was that of taxation!
>
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From carpgachair at yahoo.com  Wed Mar 12 02:20:45 2008
From: carpgachair at yahoo.com (Paul Cardwell)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 08:20:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Socie
In-Reply-To: <56e64e7a0803110503r78489697tb6a095353b354a62@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <469211.61800.qm@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

C. Northcott Parkinson (Parkinson's laws) once
described the evolution of government as follows.

A nomadic tribe was small enough that everyone knew
everyone else.  The leader was whoever was most expert
at the collective job at hand.

After awhile, the tribe grew to the point that one
permanent leader was needed to provide a "go to"
position and to avoid arguments as to whom was the
expert in the job at hand.

Ultimately, as Acton stated, power tends to corrupt
and absolute power corrupts absolutely and this leader
became a dictator (by whatever name it used).

There then was the problem of succession and so it was
made hereditary.  This provided a long training period
for the heir and a smooth transition of power.

However, one person can't attend to all details of
governing, so assistants were used to advise and carry
out the nit-picking details.  They had the same
problem of succession so they became a herititary
aristocracy.

This ultimately broke down with the problem of fourth
sons.  The eldest, under primogeniture, got the
father's position, the next went into the military,
the third the church, but what was there for the
fourth?  They went into banking or some respectable
administrative aspect of business.

Are they aristocracy?  Of course, by birth and
training.  But what about their boss at the business? 
They are the boss, but their fathers were yeoman
stock.

The other factor breaking this down was military
technology.  The armored knight (aristocracy) was no
longer the balance of military power after Crecy,
Poitiers, and Agincourt, but the bowman (yeoman) was
and you have to give them so power to keep them
allied.

Thus we have democracy in ever-widening circles of
inclusion.

However, Parkinson took this one stage farther.  The
citizens of democracies tend to get apathetic about
government as long as they are personally well off. 
Thus political bosses and even dictators arise with
the tacit consent of the governed until it is no
longer a democracy.

Certainly, we are in this stage now.

Paul Cardwell




      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 



From styopa1 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 12 03:00:43 2008
From: styopa1 at gmail.com (Styopa)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 11:00:43 -0500
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Soci
In-Reply-To: <469211.61800.qm@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <56e64e7a0803110503r78489697tb6a095353b354a62@mail.gmail.com>
	<469211.61800.qm@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <56e64e7a0803110900m6106b2ads5d949b1674b8c610@mail.gmail.com>

I think there's some "handwaving" overemphasizing the fourth sons point, but
aside from that I agree wholeheartedly with the first 3/4s and the last bit
(Parkinson).  I like his analysis and summation.

I think there are also corollary effects when you pass from the very small
band* which is essentially a VOLUNTARY association - perhaps compelled by
circumstance, but not compelled participation by the enforced wills of the
group - to the settled-tribal level, where there are farms, fields, and
hearths that are non-mobile, making participation in the socio-political
group compulsory for everyone within a more-or-less-defined geography.

Certainly that is a critical change in the relationship of the individual to
the group, and requires an entirely new approach to what might before have
been merely an implied social contract.

*(he calls it a nomadic tribes but I think that's an ethnocultural misnomer;
what he means is mainly only 'roving hunter-gatherer bands)

On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 10:20 AM, Paul Cardwell <carpgachair at yahoo.com>
wrote:

> C. Northcott Parkinson (Parkinson's laws) once
> described the evolution of government as follows.
>
> A nomadic tribe was small enough that everyone knew
> everyone else.  The leader was whoever was most expert
> at the collective job at hand.
>
> After awhile, the tribe grew to the point that one
> permanent leader was needed to provide a "go to"
> position and to avoid arguments as to whom was the
> expert in the job at hand.
>
> Ultimately, as Acton stated, power tends to corrupt
> and absolute power corrupts absolutely and this leader
> became a dictator (by whatever name it used).
>
> There then was the problem of succession and so it was
> made hereditary.  This provided a long training period
> for the heir and a smooth transition of power.
>
> However, one person can't attend to all details of
> governing, so assistants were used to advise and carry
> out the nit-picking details.  They had the same
> problem of succession so they became a herititary
> aristocracy.
>
> This ultimately broke down with the problem of fourth
> sons.  The eldest, under primogeniture, got the
> father's position, the next went into the military,
> the third the church, but what was there for the
> fourth?  They went into banking or some respectable
> administrative aspect of business.
>
> Are they aristocracy?  Of course, by birth and
> training.  But what about their boss at the business?
> They are the boss, but their fathers were yeoman
> stock.
>
> The other factor breaking this down was military
> technology.  The armored knight (aristocracy) was no
> longer the balance of military power after Crecy,
> Poitiers, and Agincourt, but the bowman (yeoman) was
> and you have to give them so power to keep them
> allied.
>
> Thus we have democracy in ever-widening circles of
> inclusion.
>
> However, Parkinson took this one stage farther.  The
> citizens of democracies tend to get apathetic about
> government as long as they are personally well off.
> Thus political bosses and even dictators arise with
> the tacit consent of the governed until it is no
> longer a democracy.
>
> Certainly, we are in this stage now.
>
> Paul Cardwell
>
>
>
>
>
>  ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
> _______________________________________________
> RQ-Rules mailing list
> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
>
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From stolenbjorn at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 12 03:03:11 2008
From: stolenbjorn at hotmail.com (Bjorn Stolen)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 16:03:11 +0000
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Socie
In-Reply-To: <56e64e7a0803110503r78489697tb6a095353b354a62@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.1.20080303092632.0351faa8@caprica.com>
	<952896.62932.qm@web51711.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	<1c92296e0803070757h5545bd97n2e632cc85be2d924@mail.gmail.com>
	<29545.196.8.104.37.1205128012.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org>
	<1c92296e0803100942u1c624bb4n942deb094274c16a@mail.gmail.com>
	<BAY129-W383E1727AFBC156EB53B9D30F0@phx.gbl> 
	<56e64e7a0803110503r78489697tb6a095353b354a62@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BAY120-W10E2444D025C227B7C7D07BB0F0@phx.gbl>

Well, I'm not sure that either of you are wrong. It all depends on who's perspective you take.
Take Norway for example:
For individual people in norway the pre-kingdom offered a lot of freedom. Most of the sagalitterature and the culutre described in there is about individualsm and freedom written by decendants of peassants escaping from the emerging kingdom of norway. Iceland was finally subdued and incorporated into Norway some 200 years after the viking-age, an age that marks the high-water-mark of norway as a kingdom. Norwegian culture prospered, as did it's martial powers, controlling Greenland, most of the small british islands, parts of scotland, parts of present sweeden + iceland and feroe islands. For most norwegian peassants, living in feudal Norway was far from fun, beeing taxed and pestered by rivalling kings and heavy building-projects (most cathedrals and fantastic buildings are built on the blood of hundreds of drafted peassants).
 
The black plage came -weirdly enough as a relief for the peassants that survived it, as it practically erazed the norwegian kingdom, that colapsed into an elective kingdom, where the king had very little practical power, as he was bankerupt, and a church with big financial problems, forced to grant peassants more freedom, or they would simply move to some abandoned farm outside the church's control. In this period, the norse culture and literature died out, though, and present Norways myread of dialects has it's origion in this pereod (late 14th century/15th century), when norway was decentrelized, with local pariches gouverning themselves, and with loads of foregin oppertunists, from Hansa-states, netherlands and scotland exploring and enjoying the weak central gouvernment, making mutually agreeable deals with the locals. 


Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:03:38 -0500From: styopa1 at gmail.comTo: rq-rules at crashbox.comSubject: Re: [Rq-rules] Spells & SocieYeah, what did the Romans ever give us?Seriously, you're just being ironic, right?  There are PLENTY of reasons that kings are the most successful form of government in pre-technological eras.  It's non-trivial that just about every post-stone-age society developed some sort of autocratic leadership centered on an individual.
On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 11:44 PM, Fred Vogel <darthvogel at hotmail.com> wrote:

The only blessings kings ever offered to the land was that of taxation!
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
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From aelarsen at mac.com  Wed Mar 12 05:38:19 2008
From: aelarsen at mac.com (Andrew Larsen)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:38:19 -0600
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Socie
In-Reply-To: <BAY120-W10E2444D025C227B7C7D07BB0F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C3FC2DBB.DDFF%aelarsen@mac.com>

Saga literature isn?t historically reliable.  It?s eminently clear that the
13th century authors freely manipulated, made up, or ignored actual events
as they chose in order to produce a more satisfying story.  The Sagas
preserve memories of Norweigans departing Norway for Iceland, but even if
those memories are accurately preserved, which is highly unlikely, they are
still a highly biased set of memories, since they don?t include the opinions
and memories of those who chose to stay and accept Harald as king.  The
depictions of Harald Fairhair as a tyrannical ruler are not reliable
indicators of how Harald actually governed, any more than American
traditions of a tyrannical George III are indications of George III?s actual
political power.  The Sagas also embody a lot of 13th century Icelandic
sentiment, so depictions of tyrannical Harald Fairhair may well owe more to
worries about Iceland?s relationship to Norway in the 13th century than in
the 10th.  

Andrew E. Larsen
"But for three years I had roses, and I apologized to nobody."
Alan Moore--V for Vendetta


On 3/11/08 10:03 AM, "Bjorn Stolen" <stolenbjorn at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Well, I'm not sure that either of you are wrong. It all depends on who's
> perspective you take.
> Take Norway for example:
> For individual people in norway the pre-kingdom offered a lot of freedom. Most
> of the sagalitterature and the culutre described in there is about
> individualsm and freedom written by decendants of peassants escaping from the
> emerging kingdom of norway. Iceland was finally subdued and incorporated into
> Norway some 200 years after the viking-age, an age that marks the
> high-water-mark of norway as a kingdom. Norwegian culture prospered, as did
> it's martial powers, controlling Greenland, most of the small british islands,
> parts of scotland, parts of present sweeden + iceland and feroe islands. For
> most norwegian peassants, living in feudal Norway was far from fun, beeing
> taxed and pestered by rivalling kings and heavy building-projects (most
> cathedrals and fantastic buildings are built on the blood of hundreds of
> drafted peassants).
>  
> The black plage came -weirdly enough as a relief for the peassants that
> survived it, as it practically erazed the norwegian kingdom, that colapsed
> into an elective kingdom, where the king had very little practical power, as
> he was bankerupt, and a church with big financial problems, forced to grant
> peassants more freedom, or they would simply move to some abandoned farm
> outside the church's control. In this period, the norse culture and literature
> died out, though, and present Norways myread of dialects has it's origion in
> this pereod (late 14th century/15th century), when norway was decentrelized,
> with local pariches gouverning themselves, and with loads of foregin
> oppertunists, from Hansa-states, netherlands and scotland exploring and
> enjoying the weak central gouvernment, making mutually agreeable deals with
> the locals. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:03:38 -0500
>> From: styopa1 at gmail.com
>> To: rq-rules at crashbox.com
>> Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Spells & Socie
>> 
>> Yeah, what did the Romans ever give us?
>> Seriously, you're just being ironic, right?  There are PLENTY of reasons that
>> kings are the most successful form of government in pre-technological eras.
>> It's non-trivial that just about every post-stone-age society developed some
>> sort of autocratic leadership centered on an individual.
>> 
>> On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 11:44 PM, Fred Vogel <darthvogel at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> The only blessings kings ever offered to the land was that of taxation!
>> 
> 
> 
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger
> <http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> RQ-Rules mailing list
> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules


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From andrew at crashbox.com  Wed Mar 12 11:19:12 2008
From: andrew at crashbox.com (Andrew O. Mellinger)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 20:19:12 -0400
Subject: [Rq-rules] Rules List needs a new home!
Message-ID: <1B97CC9A-EACA-4F05-AACA-7EA93D35C720@crashbox.com>

Everyone,

   Well the time is come and my current server is moving to a new  
host!  Also, I am not going to have time time to maintain the list  
any longer (not that I did much before).   Where should we move it?   
A google group?  Does someone else want to host?

   I look forward to your thoughts!

-Andrew


From lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au  Wed Mar 12 12:11:23 2008
From: lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au (Lev Lafayette)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:11:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Rq-rules] Rules List needs a new home!
In-Reply-To: <1B97CC9A-EACA-4F05-AACA-7EA93D35C720@crashbox.com>
Message-ID: <541920.66566.qm@web33508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


I'd be happy to host it and use mailman.

All the best,


Lev

--- "Andrew O. Mellinger" <andrew at crashbox.com> wrote:

> Everyone,
> 
>    Well the time is come and my current server is
> moving to a new  
> host!  Also, I am not going to have time time to
> maintain the list  
> any longer (not that I did much before).   Where
> should we move it?   
> A google group?  Does someone else want to host?
> 
>    I look forward to your thoughts!
> 
> -Andrew
> _______________________________________________
> RQ-Rules mailing list
> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 



From pmaranci at gmail.com  Wed Mar 12 14:29:57 2008
From: pmaranci at gmail.com (Peter Maranci)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 23:29:57 -0400
Subject: [Rq-rules] Rules List needs a new home!
In-Reply-To: <541920.66566.qm@web33508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <1B97CC9A-EACA-4F05-AACA-7EA93D35C720@crashbox.com>
	<541920.66566.qm@web33508.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <aa2df9f20803112029i5231b8d7h71bea94d3b6f8cb0@mail.gmail.com>

As long as it doesn't get taken over by Mongoose - or any company, actually
- I'll be happy. Although I have to say that I've liked this format, and I
hope the full archives will continue to be available.

Thanks, Andrew, for the work you've done over the years for the list!

->Peter

On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 9:11 PM, Lev Lafayette <lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au>
wrote:

>
> I'd be happy to host it and use mailman.
>
> All the best,
>
>
> Lev
>
> --- "Andrew O. Mellinger" <andrew at crashbox.com> wrote:
>
> > Everyone,
> >
> >    Well the time is come and my current server is
> > moving to a new
> > host!  Also, I am not going to have time time to
> > maintain the list
> > any longer (not that I did much before).   Where
> > should we move it?
> > A google group?  Does someone else want to host?
> >
> >    I look forward to your thoughts!
> >
> > -Andrew
> > _______________________________________________
> > RQ-Rules mailing list
> > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> >
>
>
>
>
>  ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
> _______________________________________________
> RQ-Rules mailing list
> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
>



-- 
Peter Maranci - pmaranci at gmail.com
Pete's RuneQuest & Roleplaying! http://www.runequest.org/rq.htm
The Diary of An Invisible Man: http://bobquasit.livejournal.com/
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From postmaster at runequest.za.org  Wed Mar 12 18:35:28 2008
From: postmaster at runequest.za.org (Tony)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 09:35:28 +0200 (SAST)
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Socie
In-Reply-To: <469211.61800.qm@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <56e64e7a0803110503r78489697tb6a095353b354a62@mail.gmail.com>
	<469211.61800.qm@web33502.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <22749.196.8.104.37.1205307328.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org>

Paul Cardwell wrote:
> C. Northcott Parkinson (Parkinson's laws) once
> described the evolution of government as follows.
>
> A nomadic tribe was small enough that everyone knew
> everyone else.  The leader was whoever was most expert
> at the collective job at hand.
>
<snip>

Still happens today. Many large corpoations have elitists on the board. To
avoid apparent nepotism, the MD of one corporation may take on his best
mate from university/whatever's son on and vice versa, so that at the end
of the day all that lovely cash stays within the group. Kind of like a
modern aristocracy i suppose.


From Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com  Wed Mar 12 19:51:09 2008
From: Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com (Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 08:51:09 +0000
Subject: [Rq-rules] Rules List needs a new home!
In-Reply-To: <aa2df9f20803112029i5231b8d7h71bea94d3b6f8cb0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OF93520995.C71292B2-ON8025740A.002FBF4F-8025740A.0030A395@wrsl.com>

Hi All,

>Andrew O. Mellinger wrote:
>
> > Everyone,
> >
> > ? ?Well the time is come and my current server is
> > moving to a new
> > host! ?Also, I am not going to have time time to
> > maintain the list
> > any longer (not that I did much before). ? Where
> > should we move it?
> > A google group? ?Does someone else want to host?
> >
> > ? ?I look forward to your thoughts!
>
>Peter Maranci wrote
>
> As long as it doesn't get taken over by Mongoose - or any company,
> actually - I'll be happy. Although I have to say that I've liked
> this format, and I hope the full archives will continue to be available.
>
> Thanks, Andrew, for the work you've done over the years for the list!

First, let me join Peter in thanking you Andrew for all you've done over
the years - it is very much appreciated!

As to a new home for the list, I'd have to agree with Peter that an
independent home would be my preference and whilst I have no substantive
arguments against Google (or Yahoo) groups (lord knows, I'm subscribed to
far too many Yahoo groups...), I think part of the character of this list
derives from the fact that it's always been "independently" hosted, if that
makes sense. So if someone such as Lev is willing to host the list and its
archives and keep running in its current I'd say that would be ideal, at
least from my point of view. Albeit I must confess I'm largely ignorant as
to the effort and costs involved in hosting the list... :O

Cheers,

Nick Middleton






Any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus detection software prior to transmission but you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. WRSL does not accept liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses. The contents of this e-mail and any attachments are the property of WRSL and are intended for the confidential use by the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other person without written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately at the following address:  Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd (WRSL), PO Box 79, Pew Hill, Langley Park, Chippenham, Wiltshire, SN15 1JD - Tel 01249 441441 
Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd  is a subsidiary of  Invensys Plc.  Registered office: Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF. 
Registered in England and Wales No. 1641421. 

From tomas.g.bjorklund at gmail.com  Wed Mar 12 20:15:22 2008
From: tomas.g.bjorklund at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tomas_Bj=F6rklund?=)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:15:22 +0100
Subject: [Rq-rules] Rules List needs a new home!
In-Reply-To: <OF93520995.C71292B2-ON8025740A.002FBF4F-8025740A.0030A395@wrsl.com>
References: <aa2df9f20803112029i5231b8d7h71bea94d3b6f8cb0@mail.gmail.com>
	<OF93520995.C71292B2-ON8025740A.002FBF4F-8025740A.0030A395@wrsl.com>
Message-ID: <5354585f0803120215o5f1e028at81118e64522416bb@mail.gmail.com>

Hi guys. Exiting lurker mode ...

I would like to put in a vote for a Google or yahoo hosted list, for the
simple reason that they are likely to be able to host it longer than any
individual. We would have our future archives at one single spot, instead of
spread out all over the place.

Putting my 2 c's in,

Tom.


On 3/12/08, Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com <Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> >Andrew O. Mellinger wrote:
> >
> > > Everyone,
> > >
> > >    Well the time is come and my current server is
> > > moving to a new
> > > host!  Also, I am not going to have time time to
> > > maintain the list
> > > any longer (not that I did much before).   Where
> > > should we move it?
> > > A google group?  Does someone else want to host?
> > >
> > >    I look forward to your thoughts!
> >
> >Peter Maranci wrote
> >
> > As long as it doesn't get taken over by Mongoose - or any company,
> > actually - I'll be happy. Although I have to say that I've liked
> > this format, and I hope the full archives will continue to be available.
> >
> > Thanks, Andrew, for the work you've done over the years for the list!
>
> First, let me join Peter in thanking you Andrew for all you've done over
> the years - it is very much appreciated!
>
> As to a new home for the list, I'd have to agree with Peter that an
> independent home would be my preference and whilst I have no substantive
> arguments against Google (or Yahoo) groups (lord knows, I'm subscribed to
> far too many Yahoo groups...), I think part of the character of this list
> derives from the fact that it's always been "independently" hosted, if
> that
> makes sense. So if someone such as Lev is willing to host the list and its
> archives and keep running in its current I'd say that would be ideal, at
> least from my point of view. Albeit I must confess I'm largely ignorant as
> to the effort and costs involved in hosting the list... :O
>
> Cheers,
>
> Nick Middleton
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus
> detection software prior to transmission but you should carry out your own
> virus check before opening any attachment. WRSL does not accept liability
> for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses. The contents
> of this e-mail and any attachments are the property of WRSL and are intended
> for the confidential use by the named recipient only. They may be legally
> privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other
> person without written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify
> us immediately at the following address:  Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd
> (WRSL), PO Box 79, Pew Hill, Langley Park, Chippenham, Wiltshire, SN15 1JD -
> Tel 01249 441441
> Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd  is a subsidiary of  Invensys
> Plc.  Registered office: Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF.
> Registered in England and Wales No. 1641421.
> _______________________________________________
> RQ-Rules mailing list
> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
>
>
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From lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au  Wed Mar 12 20:59:06 2008
From: lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au (Lev Lafayette)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 02:59:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Rq-rules] Rules List needs a new home!
In-Reply-To: <5354585f0803120215o5f1e028at81118e64522416bb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <955631.68338.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Welcome Tomas!

I'd just like to point out on this matter that the
existing archives are in a mailman format (which is
neat in its plain-text, advertising free approach).
Exporting them to a Google or Yahoo hosted format may
be... well, impossible for all intents.

I'm also prepared to give a promise here and now to
host the list for the next ten years (yes, I do like
RuneQuest that much). I'll probably continue it after
that of course, or someone else might want to take it
over... and import them into any mailman site.

And so on..


All the best,


Lev


--- Tomas Bj?rklund <tomas.g.bjorklund at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi guys. Exiting lurker mode ...
> 
> I would like to put in a vote for a Google or yahoo
> hosted list, for the
> simple reason that they are likely to be able to
> host it longer than any
> individual. We would have our future archives at one
> single spot, instead of
> spread out all over the place.
> 
> Putting my 2 c's in,
> 
> Tom.
> 
> 
> On 3/12/08, Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com
> <Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > >Andrew O. Mellinger wrote:
> > >
> > > > Everyone,
> > > >
> > > >    Well the time is come and my current server
> is
> > > > moving to a new
> > > > host!  Also, I am not going to have time time
> to
> > > > maintain the list
> > > > any longer (not that I did much before).  
> Where
> > > > should we move it?
> > > > A google group?  Does someone else want to
> host?
> > > >
> > > >    I look forward to your thoughts!
> > >
> > >Peter Maranci wrote
> > >
> > > As long as it doesn't get taken over by Mongoose
> - or any company,
> > > actually - I'll be happy. Although I have to say
> that I've liked
> > > this format, and I hope the full archives will
> continue to be available.
> > >
> > > Thanks, Andrew, for the work you've done over
> the years for the list!
> >
> > First, let me join Peter in thanking you Andrew
> for all you've done over
> > the years - it is very much appreciated!
> >
> > As to a new home for the list, I'd have to agree
> with Peter that an
> > independent home would be my preference and whilst
> I have no substantive
> > arguments against Google (or Yahoo) groups (lord
> knows, I'm subscribed to
> > far too many Yahoo groups...), I think part of the
> character of this list
> > derives from the fact that it's always been
> "independently" hosted, if
> > that
> > makes sense. So if someone such as Lev is willing
> to host the list and its
> > archives and keep running in its current I'd say
> that would be ideal, at
> > least from my point of view. Albeit I must confess
> I'm largely ignorant as
> > to the effort and costs involved in hosting the
> list... :O
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Nick Middleton
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Any files attached to this e-mail will have been
> checked with virus
> > detection software prior to transmission but you
> should carry out your own
> > virus check before opening any attachment. WRSL
> does not accept liability
> > for any damage or loss which may be caused by
> software viruses. The contents
> > of this e-mail and any attachments are the
> property of WRSL and are intended
> > for the confidential use by the named recipient
> only. They may be legally
> > privileged and should not be communicated to, or
> relied upon, by any other
> > person without written consent. If you are not the
> addressee, please notify
> > us immediately at the following address: 
> Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd
> > (WRSL), PO Box 79, Pew Hill, Langley Park,
> Chippenham, Wiltshire, SN15 1JD -
> > Tel 01249 441441
> > Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd  is a subsidiary of 
> Invensys
> > Plc.  Registered office: Portland House,
> Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF.
> > Registered in England and Wales No. 1641421.
> > _______________________________________________
> > RQ-Rules mailing list
> > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> RQ-Rules mailing list
> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 



From andrew at crashbox.com  Thu Mar 13 08:34:56 2008
From: andrew at crashbox.com (Andrew O. Mellinger)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 17:34:56 -0400
Subject: [Rq-rules] Rules List needs a new home!
In-Reply-To: <955631.68338.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <955631.68338.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <43FA6A62-06E5-47C7-9AC2-5F7C9C82D9C4@crashbox.com>

All,

   Thanks for the support!

   So far people seem to be leaning towards the independent  
solution.  I'd love to keep it going but life right now has me  
hammered. (full time job, master's degree, kid #2 on the way, and big  
old house!)

   So for now it looks like we are leaning toward taking up Lev on  
his offer?  Feel free to post any thoughts, the list has always been  
reasonably accepting. ;)

   I'd like to let this discussion run over the weekend for other  
lurkers, then start on moving is next week if possible!

   Thanks again all, and thanks to Lev for the offer!

-Andrew


On Mar 12, 2008, at 5:59 AM, Lev Lafayette wrote:

>
> Welcome Tomas!
>
> I'd just like to point out on this matter that the
> existing archives are in a mailman format (which is
> neat in its plain-text, advertising free approach).
> Exporting them to a Google or Yahoo hosted format may
> be... well, impossible for all intents.
>
> I'm also prepared to give a promise here and now to
> host the list for the next ten years (yes, I do like
> RuneQuest that much). I'll probably continue it after
> that of course, or someone else might want to take it
> over... and import them into any mailman site.
>
> And so on..
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
> Lev
>
>
> --- Tomas Bj?rklund <tomas.g.bjorklund at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi guys. Exiting lurker mode ...
>>
>> I would like to put in a vote for a Google or yahoo
>> hosted list, for the
>> simple reason that they are likely to be able to
>> host it longer than any
>> individual. We would have our future archives at one
>> single spot, instead of
>> spread out all over the place.
>>
>> Putting my 2 c's in,
>>
>> Tom.
>>
>>
>> On 3/12/08, Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com
>> <Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>>> Andrew O. Mellinger wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>>    Well the time is come and my current server
>> is
>>>>> moving to a new
>>>>> host!  Also, I am not going to have time time
>> to
>>>>> maintain the list
>>>>> any longer (not that I did much before).
>> Where
>>>>> should we move it?
>>>>> A google group?  Does someone else want to
>> host?
>>>>>
>>>>>    I look forward to your thoughts!
>>>>
>>>> Peter Maranci wrote
>>>>
>>>> As long as it doesn't get taken over by Mongoose
>> - or any company,
>>>> actually - I'll be happy. Although I have to say
>> that I've liked
>>>> this format, and I hope the full archives will
>> continue to be available.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, Andrew, for the work you've done over
>> the years for the list!
>>>
>>> First, let me join Peter in thanking you Andrew
>> for all you've done over
>>> the years - it is very much appreciated!
>>>
>>> As to a new home for the list, I'd have to agree
>> with Peter that an
>>> independent home would be my preference and whilst
>> I have no substantive
>>> arguments against Google (or Yahoo) groups (lord
>> knows, I'm subscribed to
>>> far too many Yahoo groups...), I think part of the
>> character of this list
>>> derives from the fact that it's always been
>> "independently" hosted, if
>>> that
>>> makes sense. So if someone such as Lev is willing
>> to host the list and its
>>> archives and keep running in its current I'd say
>> that would be ideal, at
>>> least from my point of view. Albeit I must confess
>> I'm largely ignorant as
>>> to the effort and costs involved in hosting the
>> list... :O
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Nick Middleton
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Any files attached to this e-mail will have been
>> checked with virus
>>> detection software prior to transmission but you
>> should carry out your own
>>> virus check before opening any attachment. WRSL
>> does not accept liability
>>> for any damage or loss which may be caused by
>> software viruses. The contents
>>> of this e-mail and any attachments are the
>> property of WRSL and are intended
>>> for the confidential use by the named recipient
>> only. They may be legally
>>> privileged and should not be communicated to, or
>> relied upon, by any other
>>> person without written consent. If you are not the
>> addressee, please notify
>>> us immediately at the following address:
>> Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd
>>> (WRSL), PO Box 79, Pew Hill, Langley Park,
>> Chippenham, Wiltshire, SN15 1JD -
>>> Tel 01249 441441
>>> Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd  is a subsidiary of
>> Invensys
>>> Plc.  Registered office: Portland House,
>> Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF.
>>> Registered in England and Wales No. 1641421.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> RQ-Rules mailing list
>>> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
>>> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> RQ-Rules mailing list
>> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
>> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
>>
>
>
>
>        
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> ______________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http:// 
> mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
> _______________________________________________
> RQ-Rules mailing list
> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
>



From tomas.g.bjorklund at gmail.com  Thu Mar 13 09:08:31 2008
From: tomas.g.bjorklund at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tomas_Bj=F6rklund?=)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 23:08:31 +0100
Subject: [Rq-rules] Rules List needs a new home!
In-Reply-To: <43FA6A62-06E5-47C7-9AC2-5F7C9C82D9C4@crashbox.com>
References: <955631.68338.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<43FA6A62-06E5-47C7-9AC2-5F7C9C82D9C4@crashbox.com>
Message-ID: <5354585f0803121508o41aca3f2sb3175294e9cf3721@mail.gmail.com>

I'm fine with Levs' offer. I wanted put in a word for the alternatives, but
I have no problems with having Lev hosting this service. He stated his case
quite well, I think.

- Tom.


On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:34 PM, Andrew O. Mellinger <andrew at crashbox.com>
wrote:

> All,
>
>   Thanks for the support!
>
>   So far people seem to be leaning towards the independent
> solution.  I'd love to keep it going but life right now has me
> hammered. (full time job, master's degree, kid #2 on the way, and big
> old house!)
>
>   So for now it looks like we are leaning toward taking up Lev on
> his offer?  Feel free to post any thoughts, the list has always been
> reasonably accepting. ;)
>
>   I'd like to let this discussion run over the weekend for other
> lurkers, then start on moving is next week if possible!
>
>   Thanks again all, and thanks to Lev for the offer!
>
> -Andrew
>
>
> On Mar 12, 2008, at 5:59 AM, Lev Lafayette wrote:
>
> >
> > Welcome Tomas!
> >
> > I'd just like to point out on this matter that the
> > existing archives are in a mailman format (which is
> > neat in its plain-text, advertising free approach).
> > Exporting them to a Google or Yahoo hosted format may
> > be... well, impossible for all intents.
> >
> > I'm also prepared to give a promise here and now to
> > host the list for the next ten years (yes, I do like
> > RuneQuest that much). I'll probably continue it after
> > that of course, or someone else might want to take it
> > over... and import them into any mailman site.
> >
> > And so on..
> >
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> >
> > Lev
> >
> >
> > --- Tomas Bj?rklund <tomas.g.bjorklund at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi guys. Exiting lurker mode ...
> >>
> >> I would like to put in a vote for a Google or yahoo
> >> hosted list, for the
> >> simple reason that they are likely to be able to
> >> host it longer than any
> >> individual. We would have our future archives at one
> >> single spot, instead of
> >> spread out all over the place.
> >>
> >> Putting my 2 c's in,
> >>
> >> Tom.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 3/12/08, Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com
> >> <Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi All,
> >>>
> >>>> Andrew O. Mellinger wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Everyone,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    Well the time is come and my current server
> >> is
> >>>>> moving to a new
> >>>>> host!  Also, I am not going to have time time
> >> to
> >>>>> maintain the list
> >>>>> any longer (not that I did much before).
> >> Where
> >>>>> should we move it?
> >>>>> A google group?  Does someone else want to
> >> host?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    I look forward to your thoughts!
> >>>>
> >>>> Peter Maranci wrote
> >>>>
> >>>> As long as it doesn't get taken over by Mongoose
> >> - or any company,
> >>>> actually - I'll be happy. Although I have to say
> >> that I've liked
> >>>> this format, and I hope the full archives will
> >> continue to be available.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks, Andrew, for the work you've done over
> >> the years for the list!
> >>>
> >>> First, let me join Peter in thanking you Andrew
> >> for all you've done over
> >>> the years - it is very much appreciated!
> >>>
> >>> As to a new home for the list, I'd have to agree
> >> with Peter that an
> >>> independent home would be my preference and whilst
> >> I have no substantive
> >>> arguments against Google (or Yahoo) groups (lord
> >> knows, I'm subscribed to
> >>> far too many Yahoo groups...), I think part of the
> >> character of this list
> >>> derives from the fact that it's always been
> >> "independently" hosted, if
> >>> that
> >>> makes sense. So if someone such as Lev is willing
> >> to host the list and its
> >>> archives and keep running in its current I'd say
> >> that would be ideal, at
> >>> least from my point of view. Albeit I must confess
> >> I'm largely ignorant as
> >>> to the effort and costs involved in hosting the
> >> list... :O
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>>
> >>> Nick Middleton
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Any files attached to this e-mail will have been
> >> checked with virus
> >>> detection software prior to transmission but you
> >> should carry out your own
> >>> virus check before opening any attachment. WRSL
> >> does not accept liability
> >>> for any damage or loss which may be caused by
> >> software viruses. The contents
> >>> of this e-mail and any attachments are the
> >> property of WRSL and are intended
> >>> for the confidential use by the named recipient
> >> only. They may be legally
> >>> privileged and should not be communicated to, or
> >> relied upon, by any other
> >>> person without written consent. If you are not the
> >> addressee, please notify
> >>> us immediately at the following address:
> >> Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd
> >>> (WRSL), PO Box 79, Pew Hill, Langley Park,
> >> Chippenham, Wiltshire, SN15 1JD -
> >>> Tel 01249 441441
> >>> Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd  is a subsidiary of
> >> Invensys
> >>> Plc.  Registered office: Portland House,
> >> Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF.
> >>> Registered in England and Wales No. 1641421.
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> RQ-Rules mailing list
> >>> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> >>> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> RQ-Rules mailing list
> >> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> >> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > ______________
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://
> > mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > RQ-Rules mailing list
> > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> RQ-Rules mailing list
> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From tom at zunder.org.uk  Thu Mar 13 09:11:05 2008
From: tom at zunder.org.uk (Thomas Zunder)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 22:11:05 +0000
Subject: [Rq-rules] Rules List needs a new home!
In-Reply-To: <5354585f0803121508o41aca3f2sb3175294e9cf3721@mail.gmail.com>
References: <955631.68338.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<43FA6A62-06E5-47C7-9AC2-5F7C9C82D9C4@crashbox.com>
	<5354585f0803121508o41aca3f2sb3175294e9cf3721@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <35AFD4DB-AB32-4E9B-8FFB-E1B3B05BF851@zunder.org.uk>

Lev has my vote IF he will nominate a qualified deputy to take over in  
case of emergencies..


On 12 Mar 2008, at 22:08, Tomas Bj?rklund wrote:

> I'm fine with Levs' offer. I wanted put in a word for the  
> alternatives, but I have no problems with having Lev hosting this  
> service. He stated his case quite well, I think.
>
> - Tom.
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:34 PM, Andrew O. Mellinger <andrew at crashbox.com 
> > wrote:
> All,
>
>   Thanks for the support!
>
>   So far people seem to be leaning towards the independent
> solution.  I'd love to keep it going but life right now has me
> hammered. (full time job, master's degree, kid #2 on the way, and big
> old house!)
>
>   So for now it looks like we are leaning toward taking up Lev on
> his offer?  Feel free to post any thoughts, the list has always been
> reasonably accepting. ;)
>
>   I'd like to let this discussion run over the weekend for other
> lurkers, then start on moving is next week if possible!
>
>   Thanks again all, and thanks to Lev for the offer!
>
> -Andrew
>
>
> On Mar 12, 2008, at 5:59 AM, Lev Lafayette wrote:
>
> >
> > Welcome Tomas!
> >
> > I'd just like to point out on this matter that the
> > existing archives are in a mailman format (which is
> > neat in its plain-text, advertising free approach).
> > Exporting them to a Google or Yahoo hosted format may
> > be... well, impossible for all intents.
> >
> > I'm also prepared to give a promise here and now to
> > host the list for the next ten years (yes, I do like
> > RuneQuest that much). I'll probably continue it after
> > that of course, or someone else might want to take it
> > over... and import them into any mailman site.
> >
> > And so on..
> >
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> >
> > Lev
> >
> >
> > --- Tomas Bj?rklund <tomas.g.bjorklund at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi guys. Exiting lurker mode ...
> >>
> >> I would like to put in a vote for a Google or yahoo
> >> hosted list, for the
> >> simple reason that they are likely to be able to
> >> host it longer than any
> >> individual. We would have our future archives at one
> >> single spot, instead of
> >> spread out all over the place.
> >>
> >> Putting my 2 c's in,
> >>
> >> Tom.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 3/12/08, Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com
> >> <Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi All,
> >>>
> >>>> Andrew O. Mellinger wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Everyone,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    Well the time is come and my current server
> >> is
> >>>>> moving to a new
> >>>>> host!  Also, I am not going to have time time
> >> to
> >>>>> maintain the list
> >>>>> any longer (not that I did much before).
> >> Where
> >>>>> should we move it?
> >>>>> A google group?  Does someone else want to
> >> host?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>    I look forward to your thoughts!
> >>>>
> >>>> Peter Maranci wrote
> >>>>
> >>>> As long as it doesn't get taken over by Mongoose
> >> - or any company,
> >>>> actually - I'll be happy. Although I have to say
> >> that I've liked
> >>>> this format, and I hope the full archives will
> >> continue to be available.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks, Andrew, for the work you've done over
> >> the years for the list!
> >>>
> >>> First, let me join Peter in thanking you Andrew
> >> for all you've done over
> >>> the years - it is very much appreciated!
> >>>
> >>> As to a new home for the list, I'd have to agree
> >> with Peter that an
> >>> independent home would be my preference and whilst
> >> I have no substantive
> >>> arguments against Google (or Yahoo) groups (lord
> >> knows, I'm subscribed to
> >>> far too many Yahoo groups...), I think part of the
> >> character of this list
> >>> derives from the fact that it's always been
> >> "independently" hosted, if
> >>> that
> >>> makes sense. So if someone such as Lev is willing
> >> to host the list and its
> >>> archives and keep running in its current I'd say
> >> that would be ideal, at
> >>> least from my point of view. Albeit I must confess
> >> I'm largely ignorant as
> >>> to the effort and costs involved in hosting the
> >> list... :O
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>>
> >>> Nick Middleton
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Any files attached to this e-mail will have been
> >> checked with virus
> >>> detection software prior to transmission but you
> >> should carry out your own
> >>> virus check before opening any attachment. WRSL
> >> does not accept liability
> >>> for any damage or loss which may be caused by
> >> software viruses. The contents
> >>> of this e-mail and any attachments are the
> >> property of WRSL and are intended
> >>> for the confidential use by the named recipient
> >> only. They may be legally
> >>> privileged and should not be communicated to, or
> >> relied upon, by any other
> >>> person without written consent. If you are not the
> >> addressee, please notify
> >>> us immediately at the following address:
> >> Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd
> >>> (WRSL), PO Box 79, Pew Hill, Langley Park,
> >> Chippenham, Wiltshire, SN15 1JD -
> >>> Tel 01249 441441
> >>> Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd  is a subsidiary of
> >> Invensys
> >>> Plc.  Registered office: Portland House,
> >> Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF.
> >>> Registered in England and Wales No. 1641421.
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> RQ-Rules mailing list
> >>> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> >>> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> RQ-Rules mailing list
> >> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> >> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> ______________________________________________________________________
> > ______________
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://
> > mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > RQ-Rules mailing list
> > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> RQ-Rules mailing list
> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
>
> _______________________________________________
> RQ-Rules mailing list
> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules

-------------- next part --------------
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From lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au  Thu Mar 13 10:52:18 2008
From: lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au (Lev Lafayette)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 16:52:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Rq-rules] Rules List needs a new home!
In-Reply-To: <35AFD4DB-AB32-4E9B-8FFB-E1B3B05BF851@zunder.org.uk>
Message-ID: <421137.99901.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


I've just approached David Cake on this matter..
*fingers crossed*.

If anyone else here has managed mailman lists feel
free to put you paw up :-)

All the best,



Lev

--- Thomas Zunder <tom at zunder.org.uk> wrote:

> Lev has my vote IF he will nominate a qualified
> deputy to take over in  
> case of emergencies..
> 
> 
> On 12 Mar 2008, at 22:08, Tomas Bj?rklund wrote:
> 
> > I'm fine with Levs' offer. I wanted put in a word
> for the  
> > alternatives, but I have no problems with having
> Lev hosting this  
> > service. He stated his case quite well, I think.
> >
> > - Tom.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:34 PM, Andrew O.
> Mellinger <andrew at crashbox.com 
> > > wrote:
> > All,
> >
> >   Thanks for the support!
> >
> >   So far people seem to be leaning towards the
> independent
> > solution.  I'd love to keep it going but life
> right now has me
> > hammered. (full time job, master's degree, kid #2
> on the way, and big
> > old house!)
> >
> >   So for now it looks like we are leaning toward
> taking up Lev on
> > his offer?  Feel free to post any thoughts, the
> list has always been
> > reasonably accepting. ;)
> >
> >   I'd like to let this discussion run over the
> weekend for other
> > lurkers, then start on moving is next week if
> possible!
> >
> >   Thanks again all, and thanks to Lev for the
> offer!
> >
> > -Andrew
> >
> >
> > On Mar 12, 2008, at 5:59 AM, Lev Lafayette wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Welcome Tomas!
> > >
> > > I'd just like to point out on this matter that
> the
> > > existing archives are in a mailman format (which
> is
> > > neat in its plain-text, advertising free
> approach).
> > > Exporting them to a Google or Yahoo hosted
> format may
> > > be... well, impossible for all intents.
> > >
> > > I'm also prepared to give a promise here and now
> to
> > > host the list for the next ten years (yes, I do
> like
> > > RuneQuest that much). I'll probably continue it
> after
> > > that of course, or someone else might want to
> take it
> > > over... and import them into any mailman site.
> > >
> > > And so on..
> > >
> > >
> > > All the best,
> > >
> > >
> > > Lev
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Tomas Bj?rklund
> <tomas.g.bjorklund at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi guys. Exiting lurker mode ...
> > >>
> > >> I would like to put in a vote for a Google or
> yahoo
> > >> hosted list, for the
> > >> simple reason that they are likely to be able
> to
> > >> host it longer than any
> > >> individual. We would have our future archives
> at one
> > >> single spot, instead of
> > >> spread out all over the place.
> > >>
> > >> Putting my 2 c's in,
> > >>
> > >> Tom.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 3/12/08, Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com
> > >> <Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi All,
> > >>>
> > >>>> Andrew O. Mellinger wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Everyone,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>    Well the time is come and my current
> server
> > >> is
> > >>>>> moving to a new
> > >>>>> host!  Also, I am not going to have time
> time
> > >> to
> > >>>>> maintain the list
> > >>>>> any longer (not that I did much before).
> > >> Where
> > >>>>> should we move it?
> > >>>>> A google group?  Does someone else want to
> > >> host?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>    I look forward to your thoughts!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Peter Maranci wrote
> > >>>>
> > >>>> As long as it doesn't get taken over by
> Mongoose
> > >> - or any company,
> > >>>> actually - I'll be happy. Although I have to
> say
> > >> that I've liked
> > >>>> this format, and I hope the full archives
> will
> > >> continue to be available.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks, Andrew, for the work you've done over
> > >> the years for the list!
> > >>>
> > >>> First, let me join Peter in thanking you
> Andrew
> > >> for all you've done over
> > >>> the years - it is very much appreciated!
> > >>>
> > >>> As to a new home for the list, I'd have to
> agree
> > >> with Peter that an
> > >>> independent home would be my preference and
> whilst
> > >> I have no substantive
> > >>> arguments against Google (or Yahoo) groups
> (lord
> > >> knows, I'm subscribed to
> > >>> far too many Yahoo groups...), I think part of
> the
> > >> character of this list
> > >>> derives from the fact that it's always been
> > >> "independently" hosted, if
> > >>> that
> > >>> makes sense. So if someone such as Lev is
> willing
> > >> to host the list and its
> > >>> archives and keep running in its current I'd
> say
> > >> that would be ideal, at
> > >>> least from my point of view. Albeit I must
> confess
> > >> I'm largely ignorant as
> > >>> to the effort and costs involved in hosting
> the
> > >> list... :O
> > >>>
> > >>> Cheers,
> > >>>
> > >>> Nick Middleton
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Any files attached to this e-mail will have
> been
> > >> checked with virus
> > >>> detection software prior to transmission but
> you
> > >> should carry out your own
> > >>> virus check before opening any attachment.
> WRSL
> > >> does not accept liability
> > >>> for any damage or loss which may be caused by
> > >> software viruses. The contents
> > >>> of this e-mail and any attachments are the
> > >> property of WRSL and are intended
> > >>> for the confidential use by the named
> recipient
> > >> only. They may be legally
> > >>> privileged and should not be communicated to,
> or
> > >> relied upon, by any other
> > >>> person without written consent. If you are not
> the
> > >> addressee, please notify
> > >>> us immediately at the following address:
> > >> Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd
> > >>> (WRSL), PO Box 79, Pew Hill, Langley Park,
> > >> Chippenham, Wiltshire, SN15 1JD -
> > >>> Tel 01249 441441
> > >>> Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd  is a subsidiary
> of
> > >> Invensys
> > >>> Plc.  Registered office: Portland House,
> > >> Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF.
> > >>> Registered in England and Wales No. 1641421.
> > >>>
> _______________________________________________
> > >>> RQ-Rules mailing list
> > >>> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > >>> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> _______________________________________________
> > >> RQ-Rules mailing list
> > >> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > >> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
> > > ______________
> > > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now. 
> http://
> > >
> mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > RQ-Rules mailing list
> > > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > RQ-Rules mailing list
> > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > RQ-Rules mailing list
> > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> 
> > _______________________________________________
> RQ-Rules mailing list
> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From pmaranci at gmail.com  Thu Mar 13 10:59:18 2008
From: pmaranci at gmail.com (Peter Maranci)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:59:18 -0400
Subject: [Rq-rules] Rules List needs a new home!
In-Reply-To: <421137.99901.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <35AFD4DB-AB32-4E9B-8FFB-E1B3B05BF851@zunder.org.uk>
	<421137.99901.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <aa2df9f20803121659g6b7aaadaif85d69069758fe02@mail.gmail.com>

Lev has my vote too, and I think the "deputy" idea is a great one.
Unfortunately I have no experience with mailman...who am I kidding? I'd be a
lousy deputy even if I'd WRITTEN mailman! :D

->Peter

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 7:52 PM, Lev Lafayette <lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au>
wrote:

>
> I've just approached David Cake on this matter..
> *fingers crossed*.
>
> If anyone else here has managed mailman lists feel
> free to put you paw up :-)
>
> All the best,
>
>
>
> Lev
>
> --- Thomas Zunder <tom at zunder.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > Lev has my vote IF he will nominate a qualified
> > deputy to take over in
> > case of emergencies..
> >
> >
> > On 12 Mar 2008, at 22:08, Tomas Bj?rklund wrote:
> >
> > > I'm fine with Levs' offer. I wanted put in a word
> > for the
> > > alternatives, but I have no problems with having
> > Lev hosting this
> > > service. He stated his case quite well, I think.
> > >
> > > - Tom.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:34 PM, Andrew O.
> > Mellinger <andrew at crashbox.com
> > > > wrote:
> > > All,
> > >
> > >   Thanks for the support!
> > >
> > >   So far people seem to be leaning towards the
> > independent
> > > solution.  I'd love to keep it going but life
> > right now has me
> > > hammered. (full time job, master's degree, kid #2
> > on the way, and big
> > > old house!)
> > >
> > >   So for now it looks like we are leaning toward
> > taking up Lev on
> > > his offer?  Feel free to post any thoughts, the
> > list has always been
> > > reasonably accepting. ;)
> > >
> > >   I'd like to let this discussion run over the
> > weekend for other
> > > lurkers, then start on moving is next week if
> > possible!
> > >
> > >   Thanks again all, and thanks to Lev for the
> > offer!
> > >
> > > -Andrew
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mar 12, 2008, at 5:59 AM, Lev Lafayette wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Welcome Tomas!
> > > >
> > > > I'd just like to point out on this matter that
> > the
> > > > existing archives are in a mailman format (which
> > is
> > > > neat in its plain-text, advertising free
> > approach).
> > > > Exporting them to a Google or Yahoo hosted
> > format may
> > > > be... well, impossible for all intents.
> > > >
> > > > I'm also prepared to give a promise here and now
> > to
> > > > host the list for the next ten years (yes, I do
> > like
> > > > RuneQuest that much). I'll probably continue it
> > after
> > > > that of course, or someone else might want to
> > take it
> > > > over... and import them into any mailman site.
> > > >
> > > > And so on..
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > All the best,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Lev
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- Tomas Bj?rklund
> > <tomas.g.bjorklund at gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi guys. Exiting lurker mode ...
> > > >>
> > > >> I would like to put in a vote for a Google or
> > yahoo
> > > >> hosted list, for the
> > > >> simple reason that they are likely to be able
> > to
> > > >> host it longer than any
> > > >> individual. We would have our future archives
> > at one
> > > >> single spot, instead of
> > > >> spread out all over the place.
> > > >>
> > > >> Putting my 2 c's in,
> > > >>
> > > >> Tom.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On 3/12/08, Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com
> > > >> <Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Hi All,
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> Andrew O. Mellinger wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> Everyone,
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>    Well the time is come and my current
> > server
> > > >> is
> > > >>>>> moving to a new
> > > >>>>> host!  Also, I am not going to have time
> > time
> > > >> to
> > > >>>>> maintain the list
> > > >>>>> any longer (not that I did much before).
> > > >> Where
> > > >>>>> should we move it?
> > > >>>>> A google group?  Does someone else want to
> > > >> host?
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>    I look forward to your thoughts!
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Peter Maranci wrote
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> As long as it doesn't get taken over by
> > Mongoose
> > > >> - or any company,
> > > >>>> actually - I'll be happy. Although I have to
> > say
> > > >> that I've liked
> > > >>>> this format, and I hope the full archives
> > will
> > > >> continue to be available.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Thanks, Andrew, for the work you've done over
> > > >> the years for the list!
> > > >>>
> > > >>> First, let me join Peter in thanking you
> > Andrew
> > > >> for all you've done over
> > > >>> the years - it is very much appreciated!
> > > >>>
> > > >>> As to a new home for the list, I'd have to
> > agree
> > > >> with Peter that an
> > > >>> independent home would be my preference and
> > whilst
> > > >> I have no substantive
> > > >>> arguments against Google (or Yahoo) groups
> > (lord
> > > >> knows, I'm subscribed to
> > > >>> far too many Yahoo groups...), I think part of
> > the
> > > >> character of this list
> > > >>> derives from the fact that it's always been
> > > >> "independently" hosted, if
> > > >>> that
> > > >>> makes sense. So if someone such as Lev is
> > willing
> > > >> to host the list and its
> > > >>> archives and keep running in its current I'd
> > say
> > > >> that would be ideal, at
> > > >>> least from my point of view. Albeit I must
> > confess
> > > >> I'm largely ignorant as
> > > >>> to the effort and costs involved in hosting
> > the
> > > >> list... :O
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Cheers,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Nick Middleton
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Any files attached to this e-mail will have
> > been
> > > >> checked with virus
> > > >>> detection software prior to transmission but
> > you
> > > >> should carry out your own
> > > >>> virus check before opening any attachment.
> > WRSL
> > > >> does not accept liability
> > > >>> for any damage or loss which may be caused by
> > > >> software viruses. The contents
> > > >>> of this e-mail and any attachments are the
> > > >> property of WRSL and are intended
> > > >>> for the confidential use by the named
> > recipient
> > > >> only. They may be legally
> > > >>> privileged and should not be communicated to,
> > or
> > > >> relied upon, by any other
> > > >>> person without written consent. If you are not
> > the
> > > >> addressee, please notify
> > > >>> us immediately at the following address:
> > > >> Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd
> > > >>> (WRSL), PO Box 79, Pew Hill, Langley Park,
> > > >> Chippenham, Wiltshire, SN15 1JD -
> > > >>> Tel 01249 441441
> > > >>> Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd  is a subsidiary
> > of
> > > >> Invensys
> > > >>> Plc.  Registered office: Portland House,
> > > >> Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF.
> > > >>> Registered in England and Wales No. 1641421.
> > > >>>
> > _______________________________________________
> > > >>> RQ-Rules mailing list
> > > >>> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > > >>> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > _______________________________________________
> > > >> RQ-Rules mailing list
> > > >> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > > >> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________________
> > > > ______________
> > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
> > http://
> > > >
> > mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > RQ-Rules mailing list
> > > > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > > > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > RQ-Rules mailing list
> > > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > RQ-Rules mailing list
> > > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > RQ-Rules mailing list
> > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> RQ-Rules mailing list
> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
>



-- 
Peter Maranci - pmaranci at gmail.com
Pete's RuneQuest & Roleplaying! http://www.runequest.org/rq.htm
The Diary of An Invisible Man: http://bobquasit.livejournal.com/
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From pmaranci at gmail.com  Thu Mar 13 10:59:18 2008
From: pmaranci at gmail.com (Peter Maranci)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:59:18 -0400
Subject: [Rq-rules] Rules List needs a new home!
In-Reply-To: <421137.99901.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <35AFD4DB-AB32-4E9B-8FFB-E1B3B05BF851@zunder.org.uk>
	<421137.99901.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <aa2df9f20803121659g6b7aaadaif85d69069758fe02@mail.gmail.com>

Lev has my vote too, and I think the "deputy" idea is a great one.
Unfortunately I have no experience with mailman...who am I kidding? I'd be a
lousy deputy even if I'd WRITTEN mailman! :D

->Peter

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 7:52 PM, Lev Lafayette <lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au>
wrote:

>
> I've just approached David Cake on this matter..
> *fingers crossed*.
>
> If anyone else here has managed mailman lists feel
> free to put you paw up :-)
>
> All the best,
>
>
>
> Lev
>
> --- Thomas Zunder <tom at zunder.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > Lev has my vote IF he will nominate a qualified
> > deputy to take over in
> > case of emergencies..
> >
> >
> > On 12 Mar 2008, at 22:08, Tomas Bj?rklund wrote:
> >
> > > I'm fine with Levs' offer. I wanted put in a word
> > for the
> > > alternatives, but I have no problems with having
> > Lev hosting this
> > > service. He stated his case quite well, I think.
> > >
> > > - Tom.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:34 PM, Andrew O.
> > Mellinger <andrew at crashbox.com
> > > > wrote:
> > > All,
> > >
> > >   Thanks for the support!
> > >
> > >   So far people seem to be leaning towards the
> > independent
> > > solution.  I'd love to keep it going but life
> > right now has me
> > > hammered. (full time job, master's degree, kid #2
> > on the way, and big
> > > old house!)
> > >
> > >   So for now it looks like we are leaning toward
> > taking up Lev on
> > > his offer?  Feel free to post any thoughts, the
> > list has always been
> > > reasonably accepting. ;)
> > >
> > >   I'd like to let this discussion run over the
> > weekend for other
> > > lurkers, then start on moving is next week if
> > possible!
> > >
> > >   Thanks again all, and thanks to Lev for the
> > offer!
> > >
> > > -Andrew
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mar 12, 2008, at 5:59 AM, Lev Lafayette wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Welcome Tomas!
> > > >
> > > > I'd just like to point out on this matter that
> > the
> > > > existing archives are in a mailman format (which
> > is
> > > > neat in its plain-text, advertising free
> > approach).
> > > > Exporting them to a Google or Yahoo hosted
> > format may
> > > > be... well, impossible for all intents.
> > > >
> > > > I'm also prepared to give a promise here and now
> > to
> > > > host the list for the next ten years (yes, I do
> > like
> > > > RuneQuest that much). I'll probably continue it
> > after
> > > > that of course, or someone else might want to
> > take it
> > > > over... and import them into any mailman site.
> > > >
> > > > And so on..
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > All the best,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Lev
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- Tomas Bj?rklund
> > <tomas.g.bjorklund at gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi guys. Exiting lurker mode ...
> > > >>
> > > >> I would like to put in a vote for a Google or
> > yahoo
> > > >> hosted list, for the
> > > >> simple reason that they are likely to be able
> > to
> > > >> host it longer than any
> > > >> individual. We would have our future archives
> > at one
> > > >> single spot, instead of
> > > >> spread out all over the place.
> > > >>
> > > >> Putting my 2 c's in,
> > > >>
> > > >> Tom.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On 3/12/08, Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com
> > > >> <Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Hi All,
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> Andrew O. Mellinger wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> Everyone,
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>    Well the time is come and my current
> > server
> > > >> is
> > > >>>>> moving to a new
> > > >>>>> host!  Also, I am not going to have time
> > time
> > > >> to
> > > >>>>> maintain the list
> > > >>>>> any longer (not that I did much before).
> > > >> Where
> > > >>>>> should we move it?
> > > >>>>> A google group?  Does someone else want to
> > > >> host?
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>    I look forward to your thoughts!
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Peter Maranci wrote
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> As long as it doesn't get taken over by
> > Mongoose
> > > >> - or any company,
> > > >>>> actually - I'll be happy. Although I have to
> > say
> > > >> that I've liked
> > > >>>> this format, and I hope the full archives
> > will
> > > >> continue to be available.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Thanks, Andrew, for the work you've done over
> > > >> the years for the list!
> > > >>>
> > > >>> First, let me join Peter in thanking you
> > Andrew
> > > >> for all you've done over
> > > >>> the years - it is very much appreciated!
> > > >>>
> > > >>> As to a new home for the list, I'd have to
> > agree
> > > >> with Peter that an
> > > >>> independent home would be my preference and
> > whilst
> > > >> I have no substantive
> > > >>> arguments against Google (or Yahoo) groups
> > (lord
> > > >> knows, I'm subscribed to
> > > >>> far too many Yahoo groups...), I think part of
> > the
> > > >> character of this list
> > > >>> derives from the fact that it's always been
> > > >> "independently" hosted, if
> > > >>> that
> > > >>> makes sense. So if someone such as Lev is
> > willing
> > > >> to host the list and its
> > > >>> archives and keep running in its current I'd
> > say
> > > >> that would be ideal, at
> > > >>> least from my point of view. Albeit I must
> > confess
> > > >> I'm largely ignorant as
> > > >>> to the effort and costs involved in hosting
> > the
> > > >> list... :O
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Cheers,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Nick Middleton
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Any files attached to this e-mail will have
> > been
> > > >> checked with virus
> > > >>> detection software prior to transmission but
> > you
> > > >> should carry out your own
> > > >>> virus check before opening any attachment.
> > WRSL
> > > >> does not accept liability
> > > >>> for any damage or loss which may be caused by
> > > >> software viruses. The contents
> > > >>> of this e-mail and any attachments are the
> > > >> property of WRSL and are intended
> > > >>> for the confidential use by the named
> > recipient
> > > >> only. They may be legally
> > > >>> privileged and should not be communicated to,
> > or
> > > >> relied upon, by any other
> > > >>> person without written consent. If you are not
> > the
> > > >> addressee, please notify
> > > >>> us immediately at the following address:
> > > >> Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd
> > > >>> (WRSL), PO Box 79, Pew Hill, Langley Park,
> > > >> Chippenham, Wiltshire, SN15 1JD -
> > > >>> Tel 01249 441441
> > > >>> Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd  is a subsidiary
> > of
> > > >> Invensys
> > > >>> Plc.  Registered office: Portland House,
> > > >> Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF.
> > > >>> Registered in England and Wales No. 1641421.
> > > >>>
> > _______________________________________________
> > > >>> RQ-Rules mailing list
> > > >>> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > > >>> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > _______________________________________________
> > > >> RQ-Rules mailing list
> > > >> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > > >> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________________
> > > > ______________
> > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
> > http://
> > > >
> > mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > RQ-Rules mailing list
> > > > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > > > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > RQ-Rules mailing list
> > > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > RQ-Rules mailing list
> > > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > RQ-Rules mailing list
> > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> RQ-Rules mailing list
> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
>



-- 
Peter Maranci - pmaranci at gmail.com
Pete's RuneQuest & Roleplaying! http://www.runequest.org/rq.htm
The Diary of An Invisible Man: http://bobquasit.livejournal.com/
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From andrew at crashbox.com  Thu Mar 13 11:20:48 2008
From: andrew at crashbox.com (Andrew O. Mellinger)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 20:20:48 -0400
Subject: [Rq-rules] Rules List needs a new home!
In-Reply-To: <aa2df9f20803121659g6b7aaadaif85d69069758fe02@mail.gmail.com>
References: <35AFD4DB-AB32-4E9B-8FFB-E1B3B05BF851@zunder.org.uk>
	<421137.99901.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<aa2df9f20803121659g6b7aaadaif85d69069758fe02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E23E118-9B1F-4E7B-8E8C-235DDCFD79DA@crashbox.com>

All,

For the most part mailman is pretty easy.  Occaisonally it has some  
problems with various mail integration (qmail, etc.) but generally   
is easy and well supported.  I wouldn't choose anything else personally.

-Andrew

On Mar 12, 2008, at 7:59 PM, Peter Maranci wrote:

> Lev has my vote too, and I think the "deputy" idea is a great one.  
> Unfortunately I have no experience with mailman...who am I kidding?  
> I'd be a lousy deputy even if I'd WRITTEN mailman! :D
>
> ->Peter
>
> On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 7:52 PM, Lev Lafayette  
> <lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
> I've just approached David Cake on this matter..
> *fingers crossed*.
>
> If anyone else here has managed mailman lists feel
> free to put you paw up :-)
>
> All the best,
>
>
>
> Lev
>
> --- Thomas Zunder <tom at zunder.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > Lev has my vote IF he will nominate a qualified
> > deputy to take over in
> > case of emergencies..
> >
> >
> > On 12 Mar 2008, at 22:08, Tomas Bj?rklund wrote:
> >
> > > I'm fine with Levs' offer. I wanted put in a word
> > for the
> > > alternatives, but I have no problems with having
> > Lev hosting this
> > > service. He stated his case quite well, I think.
> > >
> > > - Tom.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:34 PM, Andrew O.
> > Mellinger <andrew at crashbox.com
> > > > wrote:
> > > All,
> > >
> > >   Thanks for the support!
> > >
> > >   So far people seem to be leaning towards the
> > independent
> > > solution.  I'd love to keep it going but life
> > right now has me
> > > hammered. (full time job, master's degree, kid #2
> > on the way, and big
> > > old house!)
> > >
> > >   So for now it looks like we are leaning toward
> > taking up Lev on
> > > his offer?  Feel free to post any thoughts, the
> > list has always been
> > > reasonably accepting. ;)
> > >
> > >   I'd like to let this discussion run over the
> > weekend for other
> > > lurkers, then start on moving is next week if
> > possible!
> > >
> > >   Thanks again all, and thanks to Lev for the
> > offer!
> > >
> > > -Andrew
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mar 12, 2008, at 5:59 AM, Lev Lafayette wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Welcome Tomas!
> > > >
> > > > I'd just like to point out on this matter that
> > the
> > > > existing archives are in a mailman format (which
> > is
> > > > neat in its plain-text, advertising free
> > approach).
> > > > Exporting them to a Google or Yahoo hosted
> > format may
> > > > be... well, impossible for all intents.
> > > >
> > > > I'm also prepared to give a promise here and now
> > to
> > > > host the list for the next ten years (yes, I do
> > like
> > > > RuneQuest that much). I'll probably continue it
> > after
> > > > that of course, or someone else might want to
> > take it
> > > > over... and import them into any mailman site.
> > > >
> > > > And so on..
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > All the best,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Lev
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- Tomas Bj?rklund
> > <tomas.g.bjorklund at gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Hi guys. Exiting lurker mode ...
> > > >>
> > > >> I would like to put in a vote for a Google or
> > yahoo
> > > >> hosted list, for the
> > > >> simple reason that they are likely to be able
> > to
> > > >> host it longer than any
> > > >> individual. We would have our future archives
> > at one
> > > >> single spot, instead of
> > > >> spread out all over the place.
> > > >>
> > > >> Putting my 2 c's in,
> > > >>
> > > >> Tom.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On 3/12/08, Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com
> > > >> <Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Hi All,
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> Andrew O. Mellinger wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> Everyone,
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>    Well the time is come and my current
> > server
> > > >> is
> > > >>>>> moving to a new
> > > >>>>> host!  Also, I am not going to have time
> > time
> > > >> to
> > > >>>>> maintain the list
> > > >>>>> any longer (not that I did much before).
> > > >> Where
> > > >>>>> should we move it?
> > > >>>>> A google group?  Does someone else want to
> > > >> host?
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>    I look forward to your thoughts!
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Peter Maranci wrote
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> As long as it doesn't get taken over by
> > Mongoose
> > > >> - or any company,
> > > >>>> actually - I'll be happy. Although I have to
> > say
> > > >> that I've liked
> > > >>>> this format, and I hope the full archives
> > will
> > > >> continue to be available.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Thanks, Andrew, for the work you've done over
> > > >> the years for the list!
> > > >>>
> > > >>> First, let me join Peter in thanking you
> > Andrew
> > > >> for all you've done over
> > > >>> the years - it is very much appreciated!
> > > >>>
> > > >>> As to a new home for the list, I'd have to
> > agree
> > > >> with Peter that an
> > > >>> independent home would be my preference and
> > whilst
> > > >> I have no substantive
> > > >>> arguments against Google (or Yahoo) groups
> > (lord
> > > >> knows, I'm subscribed to
> > > >>> far too many Yahoo groups...), I think part of
> > the
> > > >> character of this list
> > > >>> derives from the fact that it's always been
> > > >> "independently" hosted, if
> > > >>> that
> > > >>> makes sense. So if someone such as Lev is
> > willing
> > > >> to host the list and its
> > > >>> archives and keep running in its current I'd
> > say
> > > >> that would be ideal, at
> > > >>> least from my point of view. Albeit I must
> > confess
> > > >> I'm largely ignorant as
> > > >>> to the effort and costs involved in hosting
> > the
> > > >> list... :O
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Cheers,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Nick Middleton
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Any files attached to this e-mail will have
> > been
> > > >> checked with virus
> > > >>> detection software prior to transmission but
> > you
> > > >> should carry out your own
> > > >>> virus check before opening any attachment.
> > WRSL
> > > >> does not accept liability
> > > >>> for any damage or loss which may be caused by
> > > >> software viruses. The contents
> > > >>> of this e-mail and any attachments are the
> > > >> property of WRSL and are intended
> > > >>> for the confidential use by the named
> > recipient
> > > >> only. They may be legally
> > > >>> privileged and should not be communicated to,
> > or
> > > >> relied upon, by any other
> > > >>> person without written consent. If you are not
> > the
> > > >> addressee, please notify
> > > >>> us immediately at the following address:
> > > >> Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd
> > > >>> (WRSL), PO Box 79, Pew Hill, Langley Park,
> > > >> Chippenham, Wiltshire, SN15 1JD -
> > > >>> Tel 01249 441441
> > > >>> Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd  is a subsidiary
> > of
> > > >> Invensys
> > > >>> Plc.  Registered office: Portland House,
> > > >> Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF.
> > > >>> Registered in England and Wales No. 1641421.
> > > >>>
> > _______________________________________________
> > > >>> RQ-Rules mailing list
> > > >>> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > > >>> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > _______________________________________________
> > > >> RQ-Rules mailing list
> > > >> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > > >> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________________
> > > > ______________
> > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
> > http://
> > > >
> > mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > RQ-Rules mailing list
> > > > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > > > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > RQ-Rules mailing list
> > > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > RQ-Rules mailing list
> > > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > RQ-Rules mailing list
> > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> RQ-Rules mailing list
> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
>
>
>
> -- 
> Peter Maranci - pmaranci at gmail.com
> Pete's RuneQuest & Roleplaying! http://www.runequest.org/rq.htm
> The Diary of An Invisible Man: http://bobquasit.livejournal.com/
> _______________________________________________
> RQ-Rules mailing list
> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules



From houle.brian at gmail.com  Thu Mar 13 12:32:48 2008
From: houle.brian at gmail.com (Brian Houle)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 21:32:48 -0400
Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: RQ-Rules Digest, Vol 30, Issue 12
In-Reply-To: <20080313002521.D11D6153832F@mini.thinbits.net>
References: <20080313002521.D11D6153832F@mini.thinbits.net>
Message-ID: <413f7cd00803121832u204fac7anf822443591c8965e@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, all...lurker here...

I think the mailman approach is the way to go, too.  I'd be willing to help
out in any way, Lev -- I've got some hosting space available and some
experience with mailman.

Brian
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From lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au  Thu Mar 13 13:34:11 2008
From: lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au (Lev Lafayette)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:34:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: RQ-Rules Digest, Vol 30, Issue 12
In-Reply-To: <413f7cd00803121832u204fac7anf822443591c8965e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <984864.24077.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


Done. You're the official co-manager :-)

--- Brian Houle <houle.brian at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, all...lurker here...
> 
> I think the mailman approach is the way to go, too. 
> I'd be willing to help
> out in any way, Lev -- I've got some hosting space
> available and some
> experience with mailman.
> 
> Brian
> > _______________________________________________
> RQ-Rules mailing list
> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping


From houle.brian at gmail.com  Thu Mar 13 22:55:51 2008
From: houle.brian at gmail.com (Brian Houle)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 07:55:51 -0400
Subject: [Rq-rules] Re: RQ-Rules Digest, Vol 30, Issue 12
In-Reply-To: <984864.24077.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <413f7cd00803121832u204fac7anf822443591c8965e@mail.gmail.com>
	<984864.24077.qm@web33506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <413f7cd00803130455t72cb8086xf2c88a4e016fcbdf@mail.gmail.com>

Done and done.  Long live RQ!

On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:34 PM, Lev Lafayette <lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au>
wrote:

>
> Done. You're the official co-manager :-)
>
> --- Brian Houle <houle.brian at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi, all...lurker here...
> >
> > I think the mailman approach is the way to go, too.
> > I'd be willing to help
> > out in any way, Lev -- I've got some hosting space
> > available and some
> > experience with mailman.
> >
> > Brian
> > > _______________________________________________
> > RQ-Rules mailing list
> > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> >
>
>
>
>
>  ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
> _______________________________________________
> RQ-Rules mailing list
> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
>



-- 
Brian Houle
PhD Candidate
Rhetoric and Composition
University of Massachusetts, Amherst
bhoule at english.umass.edu
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From postmaster at runequest.za.org  Fri Mar 14 18:32:02 2008
From: postmaster at runequest.za.org (Tony)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:32:02 +0200 (SAST)
Subject: [Rq-rules] Rules List needs a new home!
In-Reply-To: <aa2df9f20803121659g6b7aaadaif85d69069758fe02@mail.gmail.com>
References: <35AFD4DB-AB32-4E9B-8FFB-E1B3B05BF851@zunder.org.uk>
	<421137.99901.qm@web33507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<aa2df9f20803121659g6b7aaadaif85d69069758fe02@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <59528.196.8.104.37.1205479922.squirrel@wwm.runequest.za.org>

Peter Maranci wrote:
> Lev has my vote too, and I think the "deputy" idea is a great one.
> Unfortunately I have no experience with mailman...who am I kidding? I'd be
> a
> lousy deputy even if I'd WRITTEN mailman! :D
>
> ->Peter
>
Fine with Lev myself. Just send all new site etc details whenever it
happens so I vccan update the links on my site.


From stolenbjorn at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 15 07:25:42 2008
From: stolenbjorn at hotmail.com (Bjorn Stolen)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:25:42 +0000
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Socie
In-Reply-To: <C3FC2DBB.DDFF%aelarsen@mac.com>
References: <BAY120-W10E2444D025C227B7C7D07BB0F0@phx.gbl>
	<C3FC2DBB.DDFF%aelarsen@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BAY120-W239D085D31B93C37AA407ABB0A0@phx.gbl>

Of course you're right that the sagas are biased, but there isn't any doubt that the turbulent civil war era of 12th century in Norway that Snorre Sturlasson writes about around 1228 wasn't particularily nice for the people. And that the advantage of kingdoms compared to clans were mostly advantages for the king and his companions...
The only thing that improved for common people in a kingdom was stability (but often the stability didn't improve, even when a kingdom was established)
 
In Norway, there were some kings that were liked, because they managed to establish peace (like Magnus Lagarb?te (Magnus law-fixer) Or Haakon den Gode (Haakon the Good), but mostly, it was all about power-struggles and civil war, until we became a Danish colony. As part of the danish kingdom, things improved somewhat, but to say that norway prospered as part of the "twin-kingdom" is an exaggeration. 
 
Here's a list of norways kings from 1103 to 1536, when norway became part of denemark:
1103: Sigurd Jorsalfar (Shared the Kingdom with his two brothers, and all of them had their own hird, that all demanded hospitality of whoever they visited...
1130: Magnus Sigurdsson (Shared the Kingdom with his brother (Harald Gille), who sacked him.
1135: Harald Gille (Killed a year later)
1136: The three sons (Inge krokrygg, Sigurd Munn and ?ystein). Inge Krokrygg (=Crooked back) ruled alone, after killing his brothers
1159: Haakon Herdebrei (self-aclaimed son of Sigurd Munn) Killed in civil war-battle in 1162
1161: Magnus Erlingsson, puppet king and son of Erling Skakke("the asymetrical"), a powerful politician, who was de-facto ruler, and who made a powerful alliance with the chatolic church. Magnus Erlingsson was killed in a civil war-battle in 1184.
1177: Sverre Sigurdsson, a priest from Faroe Islands (then part of Norway), who claimed to be a bastard son of Sigurd Munn 
1202: Haakon Sverresson (Son of Sverre Sigurdsson -don't really know how this one died, he might have died of natural causes...)
1204: Guttorm Siggurdsson (Grandson of Sverre Sigurdsson, and crowned aged 4, and dead same year)
1204: Erling "Stonewall"  and Inge B?rdsson. Erling was self aclaimed son of Magnus Erlingsson; died in 1207. Inge ruled until 1217, but because of civil war, he only had control over parts of Norway.
1207: Filippus Simonsson, son of a priest that supported the chatolic side in the civil war.1217: Haakon Haakondsson; ruled a long time, and died of natural causes. He had to rule with a co-king (Skule Baardsson), but had him killed eventually in a battle...
1230-1240: Skule Baardsson; see above...
Haakon ruled until 1263, and after the killing of Skule, the norwegian kingdom became more stable, and perhaps a better place for the peassants; especially after the black plague; see my previous post.
:) 
 


Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:38:19 -0600Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Spells & SocieFrom: aelarsen at mac.comTo: rq-rules at crashbox.com
Saga literature isn?t historically reliable.  It?s eminently clear that the 13th century authors freely manipulated, made up, or ignored actual events as they chose in order to produce a more satisfying story.  The Sagas preserve memories of Norweigans departing Norway for Iceland, but even if those memories are accurately preserved, which is highly unlikely, they are still a highly biased set of memories, since they don?t include the opinions and memories of those who chose to stay and accept Harald as king.  The depictions of Harald Fairhair as a tyrannical ruler are not reliable indicators of how Harald actually governed, any more than American traditions of a tyrannical George III are indications of George III?s actual political power.  The Sagas also embody a lot of 13th century Icelandic sentiment, so depictions of tyrannical Harald Fairhair may well owe more to worries about Iceland?s relationship to Norway in the 13th century than in the 10th.  Andrew E. Larsen"But for three years I had roses, and I apologized to nobody."Alan Moore--V for VendettaOn 3/11/08 10:03 AM, "Bjorn Stolen" <stolenbjorn at hotmail.com> wrote:
Well, I'm not sure that either of you are wrong. It all depends on who's perspective you take.Take Norway for example:For individual people in norway the pre-kingdom offered a lot of freedom. Most of the sagalitterature and the culutre described in there is about individualsm and freedom written by decendants of peassants escaping from the emerging kingdom of norway. Iceland was finally subdued and incorporated into Norway some 200 years after the viking-age, an age that marks the high-water-mark of norway as a kingdom. Norwegian culture prospered, as did it's martial powers, controlling Greenland, most of the small british islands, parts of scotland, parts of present sweeden + iceland and feroe islands. For most norwegian peassants, living in feudal Norway was far from fun, beeing taxed and pestered by rivalling kings and heavy building-projects (most cathedrals and fantastic buildings are built on the blood of hundreds of drafted peassants). The black plage came -weirdly enough as a relief for the peassants that survived it, as it practically erazed the norwegian kingdom, that colapsed into an elective kingdom, where the king had very little practical power, as he was bankerupt, and a church with big financial problems, forced to grant peassants more freedom, or they would simply move to some abandoned farm outside the church's control. In this period, the norse culture and literature died out, though, and present Norways myread of dialects has it's origion in this pereod (late 14th century/15th century), when norway was decentrelized, with local pariches gouverning themselves, and with loads of foregin oppertunists, from Hansa-states, netherlands and scotland exploring and enjoying the weak central gouvernment, making mutually agreeable deals with the locals. 


Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:03:38 -0500From: styopa1 at gmail.comTo: rq-rules at crashbox.comSubject: Re: [Rq-rules] Spells & SocieYeah, what did the Romans ever give us?Seriously, you're just being ironic, right?  There are PLENTY of reasons that kings are the most successful form of government in pre-technological eras.  It's non-trivial that just about every post-stone-age society developed some sort of autocratic leadership centered on an individual.On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 11:44 PM, Fred Vogel <darthvogel at hotmail.com> wrote:
The only blessings kings ever offered to the land was that of taxation!

Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! MSN Messenger <http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/> 

_______________________________________________RQ-Rules mailing listRQ-Rules at crashbox.comhttp://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
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From stolenbjorn at hotmail.com  Sat Mar 15 07:31:32 2008
From: stolenbjorn at hotmail.com (Bjorn Stolen)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:31:32 +0000
Subject: [Rq-rules] Spells & Socie
In-Reply-To: <C3FC2DBB.DDFF%aelarsen@mac.com>
References: <BAY120-W10E2444D025C227B7C7D07BB0F0@phx.gbl>
	<C3FC2DBB.DDFF%aelarsen@mac.com>
Message-ID: <BAY120-W34D9A2EB8A9A084B300848BB0A0@phx.gbl>

-allso remember that Iceland didn't become part of Norway until middle of 1200's, and some (but not all) sagas are from that time, so even if they describe "viking-age", they knew that they weren't very keen on accepting a king as their overlord...


Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:38:19 -0600Subject: Re: [Rq-rules] Spells & SocieFrom: aelarsen at mac.comTo: rq-rules at crashbox.com
Saga literature isn?t historically reliable.  It?s eminently clear that the 13th century authors freely manipulated, made up, or ignored actual events as they chose in order to produce a more satisfying story.  The Sagas preserve memories of Norweigans departing Norway for Iceland, but even if those memories are accurately preserved, which is highly unlikely, they are still a highly biased set of memories, since they don?t include the opinions and memories of those who chose to stay and accept Harald as king.  The depictions of Harald Fairhair as a tyrannical ruler are not reliable indicators of how Harald actually governed, any more than American traditions of a tyrannical George III are indications of George III?s actual political power.  The Sagas also embody a lot of 13th century Icelandic sentiment, so depictions of tyrannical Harald Fairhair may well owe more to worries about Iceland?s relationship to Norway in the 13th century than in the 10th.  Andrew E. Larsen"But for three years I had roses, and I apologized to nobody."Alan Moore--V for Vendetta
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From booksfleamarket at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 17 16:36:57 2008
From: booksfleamarket at yahoo.com (Ken & Juliane Murphy)
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 22:36:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Rq-rules] What the cat dragged in
Message-ID: <139307.40492.qm@web42103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

   Hiya gang,
     Intermittent list member Ken Murphy here once again. Last time around, I'd been a pretty steady subscriber (and occasional contributor) around '04-06 (its all a bit of a blur, now). 
     Back in the day I did a write-up of several different types of Elemental, an overly-ambitious Special Features Table using 1D100 to generate results (though not truly having a *thousand* different entries---which I'd originally *hoped* to do, but hey, I'm not *NUTS*), alternate takes on several different RQ3 creatures, including the Mantikoras and Fachan (and maybe a few others), as well as knocking out several pretty well-received Sorcery spells cadged from MERP, Spell Law, and Doctor Strange comics.
     I was also working on *my* slow-to-finish take on the RQ3 Bestiary back then (even having emailed a decidedly rough copy of it to *someone* on the list). With pesky Real Life being what it is, the Bestiary has *still*  not been finished,
     Don't get much chance to actually *play* these days (which, I guess isn't all that uncommon)---the old gang having been scattered to the winds in the last couple of years, and the few remaining *working* all the damn time (boo!).----but I'm *still* able to talk rules and such with the best of 'em. Lol!
     Good to be back.
    
    -Ken-
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   
  "If I were a Sea Otter, I'd have to eat 200 Quarterpounders 
  a day just to stay alive!"
   
  [An unattributed comment overheard while  
  watching Animal Planet]

       
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.
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From jurrubin at gmail.com  Tue Mar 18 09:24:09 2008
From: jurrubin at gmail.com (David Smart)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:24:09 -0500
Subject: [Rq-rules] What the cat dragged in
In-Reply-To: <139307.40492.qm@web42103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <139307.40492.qm@web42103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1c92296e0803171524n3891964bn9ffd499d17ae0a06@mail.gmail.com>

Welcome back!

On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 12:36 AM, Ken & Juliane Murphy <
booksfleamarket at yahoo.com> wrote:

>    Hiya gang,
>    Intermittent list member Ken Murphy here once again. Last time around,
> I'd been a pretty steady subscriber (and occasional contributor) around
> '04-06 (its all a bit of a blur, now).
>
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From clive.wickens at btopenworld.com  Wed Mar 19 10:50:11 2008
From: clive.wickens at btopenworld.com (Clive Wickens)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 23:50:11 -0000
Subject: [Rq-rules] What the cat dragged in + the changing of the guard +
	SIZ matters
References: <139307.40492.qm@web42103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <002001c88952$cf409960$285d8456@sickboy>

A different RQ3 bestiary that sounds interesting ! ( hint, hint )

I'd just like to say thanks to Andrew for maintaining the list for all this time, it's given me many hours happy reading, even if I don't say much.

Lastly, a question: at what point do people feel the difference in sizes between two opponents renders using the hit location pointless. Consider a 100 ft giant fighting a human, or a 6ft human fighting some pesky 6inch pixie. It seems to me that any strike by the larger combatants weapon is going to cause total body damage, in short the little guy gets squished flat, no point at all in using the hit location table.

However at what point does this become true ? 3 times the size of the snaller fighter, 4 times ? 5 times ?

Cheers,

Clive
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Ken & Juliane Murphy 
  To: rq-rules at crashbox.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 5:36 AM
  Subject: [Rq-rules] What the cat dragged in


     Hiya gang,
     Intermittent list member Ken Murphy here once again. Last time around, I'd been a pretty steady subscriber (and occasional contributor) around '04-06 (its all a bit of a blur, now). 
     Back in the day I did a write-up of several different types of Elemental, an overly-ambitious Special Features Table using 1D100 to generate results (though not truly having a *thousand* different entries---which I'd originally *hoped* to do, but hey, I'm not *NUTS*), alternate takes on several different RQ3 creatures, including the Mantikoras and Fachan (and maybe a few others), as well as knocking out several pretty well-received Sorcery spells cadged from MERP, Spell Law, and Doctor Strange comics.
     I was also working on *my* slow-to-finish take on the RQ3 Bestiary back then (even having emailed a decidedly rough copy of it to *someone* on the list). With pesky Real Life being what it is, the Bestiary has *still*  not been finished,
     Don't get much chance to actually *play* these days (which, I guess isn't all that uncommon)---the old gang having been scattered to the winds in the last couple of years, and the few remaining *working* all the damn time (boo!).----but I'm *still* able to talk rules and such with the best of 'em. Lol!
     Good to be back.
   
    -Ken-
  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  "If I were a Sea Otter, I'd have to eat 200 Quarterpounders 
  a day just to stay alive!"
     
  [An unattributed comment overheard while  
  watching Animal Planet]


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. 


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com  Wed Mar 19 19:12:26 2008
From: Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com (Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 08:12:26 +0000
Subject: [Rq-rules] What the cat dragged in + the changing of the guard
	+	SIZ matters
In-Reply-To: <002001c88952$cf409960$285d8456@sickboy>
Message-ID: <OF04E6ED7F.080A4C67-ON80257411.002C91E7-80257411.002D237F@wrsl.com>

Hi Ken,


> ?? Intermittent list member Ken Murphy here once again. Last  time
> around, I'd been a pretty steady subscriber (and occasional
> contributor)  around '04-06 (its all a bit of a blur, now).
> ???Back in the day I did a write-up of several different  types of
> Elemental, an overly-ambitious Special Features Table using 1D100 to
> generate results (though not truly having?a *thousand*?different
> entries---which I'd originally *hoped* to do, but hey, I'm not
> *NUTS*),  alternate takes on several different RQ3 creatures,
> including the Mantikoras  and Fachan (and maybe a few others), as
> well as?knocking out?several  pretty well-received Sorcery spells
> cadged from MERP, Spell Law, and Doctor  Strange comics.

I should probably at this point confess that, since you had posted them to
the list and weren't about, I posted copies in the file section of Ben
Monroe's RQIII Yahoo Group - I hope you don't mind?

> ?? I was also working on?*my* slow-to-finish take on the  RQ3
> Bestiary back then (even having emailed a decidedly?rough copy of it
> to *someone* on the list). With pesky Real Life being what it is,
> the Bestiary  has?*still*? not been finished,

:D Know that feeling!

> ?? Don't get much chance to actually *play* these days (which,  I
> guess isn't all that uncommon)---the old gang?having been scattered
> to  the winds in the last couple of years, and the few remaining
> *working* all the  damn time (boo!).----but I'm?*still* able to talk
> rules and such with the  best of 'em. Lol!
> ?? Good to be back.

God to have you back Ken, and don't despair - everyone goes through gaming
lean patches of one sort or another and thing eventually pick up.

Cheers,

Nick Middleton



Any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus detection software prior to transmission but you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. WRSL does not accept liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses. The contents of this e-mail and any attachments are the property of WRSL and are intended for the confidential use by the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other person without written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately at the following address:  Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd (WRSL), PO Box 79, Pew Hill, Langley Park, Chippenham, Wiltshire, SN15 1JD - Tel 01249 441441 
Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd  is a subsidiary of  Invensys Plc.  Registered office: Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF. 
Registered in England and Wales No. 1641421. 

From Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com  Wed Mar 19 19:21:27 2008
From: Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com (Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 08:21:27 +0000
Subject: [Rq-rules] What the cat dragged in + the changing of the guard
	+	SIZ matters
In-Reply-To: <002001c88952$cf409960$285d8456@sickboy>
Message-ID: <OF68A7AFB4.9FFFDF1B-ON80257411.002DBD54-80257411.002DF6F5@wrsl.com>

> Lastly, a question: at what point do people feel  the difference in
> sizes between two opponents?renders using the hit  location
> pointless. Consider a 100 ft giant fighting a human, or a 6ft human
> fighting some pesky 6inch pixie. It seems to me that?any strike by
> the  larger combatants weapon is going to cause total body damage,
> in short the  little guy gets squished flat, no point at all in
> using the hit location  table.
>
> However at what point does this become true  ??3 times?the size of
> the snaller  fighter, 4 times ? 5 times ?

IIRC SIZ isn't linear, and the issue becomes clear cut when the larger
combatant is so big they can pick up the smaller in one "hand", so I'd
guess when they are 4 times larger (or possibly 5), albeit I'd have to
check actual stats and stuff when I'm at home...

Cheers,

Nick Middleton



Any files attached to this e-mail will have been checked with virus detection software prior to transmission but you should carry out your own virus check before opening any attachment. WRSL does not accept liability for any damage or loss which may be caused by software viruses. The contents of this e-mail and any attachments are the property of WRSL and are intended for the confidential use by the named recipient only. They may be legally privileged and should not be communicated to, or relied upon, by any other person without written consent. If you are not the addressee, please notify us immediately at the following address:  Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd (WRSL), PO Box 79, Pew Hill, Langley Park, Chippenham, Wiltshire, SN15 1JD - Tel 01249 441441 
Westinghouse Rail Systems Ltd  is a subsidiary of  Invensys Plc.  Registered office: Portland House, Bressenden Place, London, SW1E 5BF. 
Registered in England and Wales No. 1641421. 

From gazza666 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 19 19:30:45 2008
From: gazza666 at gmail.com (Gary Sturgess)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:30:45 +0900
Subject: [Rq-rules] What the cat dragged in + the changing of the guard +
	SIZ matters
In-Reply-To: <OF68A7AFB4.9FFFDF1B-ON80257411.002DBD54-80257411.002DF6F5@wrsl.com>
References: <002001c88952$cf409960$285d8456@sickboy>
	<OF68A7AFB4.9FFFDF1B-ON80257411.002DBD54-80257411.002DF6F5@wrsl.com>
Message-ID: <9ebd81400803190130l24d59847p2f180338e89db58b@mail.gmail.com>

On 19/03/2008, Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com <Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com> wrote:

> IIRC SIZ isn't linear, and the issue becomes clear cut when the larger
>  combatant is so big they can pick up the smaller in one "hand", so I'd
>  guess when they are 4 times larger (or possibly 5), albeit I'd have to
>  check actual stats and stuff when I'm at home...

I don't have it to hand, but I thought there was a linear relationship
between ENC and SIZ (something like 1 SIZ = 4 ENC, from memory). I
believe 1 ENC = 1 kg, so that pretty much means that SIZ is linear.

The argument usually comes up in relationship to the resistance table,
where it will be claimed that someone with a 1000 POW is actually as
much more POWerful than someone with 990 POW that the 95% success
chance would imply. I use POW as the example here because it's the one
usually given. I've never been particularly impressed by this
argument; logically, it should mean that magic points should not be a
linear relationship to POW; that divine spells should cost variable
amounts of POW depending on your starting POW when you make the
sacrifice, and so on (otherwise someone with 1000 POW is paying a lot
more for Sever Spirit than someone with only 990 POW). A more
reasonable conclusion would be that in most cases attributes aren't
going to vary much out of the 1-30 range, and the resistance table is
a reasonable approximation in such cases; I don't believe that it's
supposed to mean that the characteristics are exponential. There's too
little evidence of that; look at the bonus damage for STR + SIZ, for
example (after a bit of jaggedness it smooths out to +10 = +1d6), look
at the way skill modifiers are calculated (definitely treating the
characteristics as linear), and so on.

I guess what I'm saying is that even if you're right and SIZ _isn't_
linear, it probably _should_ be. :)
-- 
GAZZA


From phil.hibbs at capgemini.com  Thu Mar 20 00:34:38 2008
From: phil.hibbs at capgemini.com (Hibbs, Phil)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:34:38 -0000
Subject: [Rq-rules] SIZ matters
In-Reply-To: <9ebd81400803190130l24d59847p2f180338e89db58b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <002001c88952$cf409960$285d8456@sickboy> 
	<OF68A7AFB4.9FFFDF1B-ON80257411.002DBD54-80257411.002DF6F5@wrsl.com> 
	<9ebd81400803190130l24d59847p2f180338e89db58b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <28FEE77FA0D069428DBB715915864EE60A96F826@MISSBHXVS02.uki.capgemini.com>



SIZ is definitely non-linear, there's a SIZ to height/weight table in the
RQ3 reference pages. 1Enc = 6kg, but I don't think there's an Enc to Siz
relationship - if there is, it's only applicable at the "normal human" scale
i.e. 10-16.

Phil Hibbs.


Capgemini is a trading name used by the Capgemini Group of companies which includes Capgemini UK plc, a company registered in England and Wales (number 943935) whose registered office is at No. 1 Forge End, Woking, Surrey, GU21 6DB. 


This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient,  you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate,  distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this  message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all  copies of this message.



From phil.hibbs at capgemini.com  Thu Mar 20 00:36:19 2008
From: phil.hibbs at capgemini.com (Hibbs, Phil)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:36:19 -0000
Subject: [Rq-rules] SIZ matters
In-Reply-To: <9ebd81400803190130l24d59847p2f180338e89db58b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <002001c88952$cf409960$285d8456@sickboy> 
	<OF68A7AFB4.9FFFDF1B-ON80257411.002DBD54-80257411.002DF6F5@wrsl.com> 
	<9ebd81400803190130l24d59847p2f180338e89db58b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <28FEE77FA0D069428DBB715915864EE60A96F837@MISSBHXVS02.uki.capgemini.com>


GAZZA:
>...divine spells should cost variable
>amounts of POW depending on your starting POW when you make the
>sacrifice, and so on (otherwise someone with 1000 POW is paying a lot
>more for Sever Spirit than someone with only 990 POW).

Hm, divine magic as progressive taxation, why not?

Phil Hibbs.


Capgemini is a trading name used by the Capgemini Group of companies which includes Capgemini UK plc, a company registered in England and Wales (number 943935) whose registered office is at No. 1 Forge End, Woking, Surrey, GU21 6DB. 


This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient,  you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate,  distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this  message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all  copies of this message.



From gazza666 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 20 00:55:17 2008
From: gazza666 at gmail.com (Gary Sturgess)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:55:17 +0900
Subject: [Rq-rules] SIZ matters
In-Reply-To: <28FEE77FA0D069428DBB715915864EE60A96F826@MISSBHXVS02.uki.capgemini.com>
References: <002001c88952$cf409960$285d8456@sickboy>
	<OF68A7AFB4.9FFFDF1B-ON80257411.002DBD54-80257411.002DF6F5@wrsl.com>
	<9ebd81400803190130l24d59847p2f180338e89db58b@mail.gmail.com>
	<28FEE77FA0D069428DBB715915864EE60A96F826@MISSBHXVS02.uki.capgemini.com>
Message-ID: <9ebd81400803190655j726514e1q55e448c86f1ea1d7@mail.gmail.com>

On 19/03/2008, Hibbs, Phil <phil.hibbs at capgemini.com> wrote:
>
>
>  SIZ is definitely non-linear, there's a SIZ to height/weight table in the
>  RQ3 reference pages. 1Enc = 6kg, but I don't think there's an Enc to Siz
>  relationship - if there is, it's only applicable at the "normal human" scale
>  i.e. 10-16.

Well, that's a problem for several reasons, amongst them working out
how much you are encumbered if you are required to carry someone.
Given the often violent nature of RQ combat that's not exactly a
wildly improbable event.

Of course you can look up their SIZ, calculate their total kg, and
then convert it to ENC I suppose. But if SIZ is not linear, then
damage is also not linear (as SIZ is used - linearly - to calculate
both hit points and damage bonus). Also stealth and agility skills are
not linear. And when you generate a character "the 80 point way", some
of those points are going to count more than others.

It's just messy. With the exception of the resistance table and a
couple of charts, the overriding assumption seems to be that all
characteristics are linear - it bears out remarkably well with those
exceptions in mind. Twice the SIZ, twice the contribution of SIZ to
hit points. Add 20 to SIZ, add +1d6 damage bonus. Without this
assumption even the basic percentage based skill system breaks down -
100% is no longer twice 50%, if you can't count the attribute bonus
part of the number as being linear.

It doesn't really break anything under normal circumstances to make
that assumption, unless you typically go up against the Mother of
Monsters or something. Of note is that things that rely exclusively on
the resistance table - spirit combat being the obvious example - are
often counter-intuitive if you go up against unusually powerful
spirits. And I find it unlikely that the Crimson Bat really has a POW
that is (depending on what exponent you decide to use) a googleplex
higher than the human average - if it were THAT much better, then
there seems little point in statting it out (because as we all know,
the only reason to give something stats is so that your players can
kill it ;) ).
-- 
GAZZA


From gazza666 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 20 00:55:49 2008
From: gazza666 at gmail.com (Gary Sturgess)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:55:49 +0900
Subject: [Rq-rules] SIZ matters
In-Reply-To: <28FEE77FA0D069428DBB715915864EE60A96F837@MISSBHXVS02.uki.capgemini.com>
References: <002001c88952$cf409960$285d8456@sickboy>
	<OF68A7AFB4.9FFFDF1B-ON80257411.002DBD54-80257411.002DF6F5@wrsl.com>
	<9ebd81400803190130l24d59847p2f180338e89db58b@mail.gmail.com>
	<28FEE77FA0D069428DBB715915864EE60A96F837@MISSBHXVS02.uki.capgemini.com>
Message-ID: <9ebd81400803190655h654b8572od24c61043d3e0ce5@mail.gmail.com>

On 19/03/2008, Hibbs, Phil <phil.hibbs at capgemini.com> wrote:
>
>  GAZZA:
>  >...divine spells should cost variable
>  >amounts of POW depending on your starting POW when you make the
>  >sacrifice, and so on (otherwise someone with 1000 POW is paying a lot
>  >more for Sever Spirit than someone with only 990 POW).
>
>  Hm, divine magic as progressive taxation, why not?

Among the most obvious reasons, because it would play havoc with POW
gain rolls. :)
-- 
GAZZA


From shaw at caprica.com  Thu Mar 20 02:46:38 2008
From: shaw at caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 07:46:38 -0800
Subject: [Rq-rules] What the cat dragged in + the changing of the
	guard + SIZ matters
In-Reply-To: <9ebd81400803190130l24d59847p2f180338e89db58b@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <002001c88952$cf409960$285d8456@sickboy>
	<OF68A7AFB4.9FFFDF1B-ON80257411.002DBD54-80257411.002DF6F5@wrsl.com>
	<9ebd81400803190130l24d59847p2f180338e89db58b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.1.20080319074612.034b3828@caprica.com>

At 12:30 AM 3/19/2008, you wrote:
>On 19/03/2008, Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com <Nick.Middleton at wrsl.com> wrote:
>
> > IIRC SIZ isn't linear, and the issue becomes clear cut when the larger
> >  combatant is so big they can pick up the smaller in one "hand", so I'd
> >  guess when they are 4 times larger (or possibly 5), albeit I'd have to
> >  check actual stats and stuff when I'm at home...
>
>I don't have it to hand, but I thought there was a linear relationship
>between ENC and SIZ (something like 1 SIZ = 4 ENC, from memory). I
>believe 1 ENC = 1 kg, so that pretty much means that SIZ is linear.

 From what I recall of the RQ3 Size table, that can't be possible.





From shaw at caprica.com  Thu Mar 20 02:48:17 2008
From: shaw at caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 07:48:17 -0800
Subject: [Rq-rules] SIZ matters
In-Reply-To: <9ebd81400803190655j726514e1q55e448c86f1ea1d7@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <002001c88952$cf409960$285d8456@sickboy>
	<OF68A7AFB4.9FFFDF1B-ON80257411.002DBD54-80257411.002DF6F5@wrsl.com>
	<9ebd81400803190130l24d59847p2f180338e89db58b@mail.gmail.com>
	<28FEE77FA0D069428DBB715915864EE60A96F826@MISSBHXVS02.uki.capgemini.com>
	<9ebd81400803190655j726514e1q55e448c86f1ea1d7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.1.20080319074749.034a78d0@caprica.com>


>It doesn't really break anything under normal circumstances to make
>that assumption, unless you typically go up against the Mother of
>Monsters or something. Of note is that things that rely exclusively on

I think it creates problems the moment you start fighting most larger 
monsters on the dragon/giant scale.



From mechashef at emailme.net.au  Thu Mar 20 10:04:58 2008
From: mechashef at emailme.net.au (Mechashef)
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:04:58 +1100
Subject: [Rq-rules] SIZ matters
In-Reply-To: <28FEE77FA0D069428DBB715915864EE60A96F826@MISSBHXVS02.uki.capgemini.com>
Message-ID: <20080319230337.638B222FF1B@m0.velocity.net.au>

> Phil Hibbs.
> SIZ is definitely non-linear, there's a SIZ to height/weight table in the
> RQ3 reference pages. ...

Phil is absolutely correct.  Siz is non-linear.  In general the range of kgs
covered by each size point increases as Size gets larger, but there are
exceptions and the sequence does not seem to be predictable.  In my opinion
the Size table in RQ3 is weird and lacks logic and while I think the
concepts of Size is great, the assignment of weight values to Size is one of
the poorest parts of the RQ3 mechanics. 

 
As example:

Size 3 is from 12kg to 17kg, a range of 5kg.
Size 4 is from 18kg to 23kg, also a range of 5kg.
Size 5 is from 24kg to 35kg, a range of 11kg.
Size 6 is from 36kg to 41kg, back to a range of 5kg.
Size 7 is from 42kg to 49kg, a range of 7kg.
Size 8 is from 50kg to 54kg, a range of 4kg.
Size 9 is from 55kg to 58kg, a range of 3kg.

Note that the range covered by each size point seems almost random, though 5
is a popular number.


At the upper end:

Size 41 is from  872kg to 950kg,  a range of  78kg.
Size 42 is from  951kg to 1039kg, a range of  88kg.
Size 43 is from 1040kg to 1129kg, a range of  89kg.
Size 44 is from 1130kg to 1229kg, a range of  99kg.
Size 45 is from 1230kg to 1349kg, a range of 119kg.
Size 46 is from 1350kg to 1469kg, a range of 119kg.
Size 47 is from 1470kg to 1599kg, a range of 129kg.
Size 48 is from 1600kg to 1739kg, a range of 139kg.

Note that for these high values of Size, the range covered by each Size
Point generally increases by 10 but there are exceptions (increases of 1, 20
and 0)


As I create a lot of new creatures, I devised my own one which is similar
(especially for human range), but I believe better handles large creatures.



From lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au  Wed Mar 26 11:27:10 2008
From: lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au (Lev Lafayette)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:27:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Rq-rules] rq-rules or just runequest?
Message-ID: <952920.1564.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hey people,

I was just wondering if there was any strong feelings
if the list name at the new host was simply called
'runequest' rather than 'rq-rules'?

I understand there may have been historical reasons to
differentiate between RuneQuest's default world
(Glorantha) and RuneQuest the game system, but I'm not
sure whether that is necessary anymore.

All the best,



Lev





      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ


From mechashef at emailme.net.au  Wed Mar 26 12:11:46 2008
From: mechashef at emailme.net.au (Mechashef)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 01:11:46 -0000
Subject: [Rq-rules] rq-rules or just runequest?
In-Reply-To: <952920.1564.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20080326011139.C28382300F9@m0.velocity.net.au>

Fine by me

-----Original Message-----
From: rq-rules-bounces at crashbox.com [mailto:rq-rules-bounces at crashbox.com]
On Behalf Of Lev Lafayette
Sent: Wednesday, 26 March 2008 11:27 AM
To: Discussion of RuneQuest rules.
Subject: [Rq-rules] rq-rules or just runequest?

Hey people,

I was just wondering if there was any strong feelings
if the list name at the new host was simply called
'runequest' rather than 'rq-rules'?

I understand there may have been historical reasons to
differentiate between RuneQuest's default world
(Glorantha) and RuneQuest the game system, but I'm not
sure whether that is necessary anymore.

All the best,



Lev





 
____________________________________________________________________________
________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
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http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules



From shaw at caprica.com  Wed Mar 26 12:24:17 2008
From: shaw at caprica.com (Wayne Shaw)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:24:17 -0800
Subject: [Rq-rules] rq-rules or just runequest?
In-Reply-To: <952920.1564.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <952920.1564.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.1.20080325172339.03436c78@caprica.com>

At 04:27 PM 3/25/2008, you wrote:
>Hey people,
>
>I was just wondering if there was any strong feelings
>if the list name at the new host was simply called
>'runequest' rather than 'rq-rules'?
>
>I understand there may have been historical reasons to
>differentiate between RuneQuest's default world
>(Glorantha) and RuneQuest the game system, but I'm not
>sure whether that is necessary anymore.

Depends.  I'm still somewhat interested in RQ as a rules set.  I'm 
not in the least interested in Glorantha.



From pmaranci at gmail.com  Wed Mar 26 12:38:48 2008
From: pmaranci at gmail.com (Peter Maranci)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:38:48 -0400
Subject: [Rq-rules] rq-rules or just runequest?
In-Reply-To: <952920.1564.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <952920.1564.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <aa2df9f20803251838p1675b764s3141da0d81031603@mail.gmail.com>

Well, I think that "RuneQuest Rules" expresses the historical purpose of
this list more accurately. That term includes rules systems which are
essentially RuneQuest, but don't go by that name - while "RuneQuest" might
be assumed to cover Mongoose "RuneQuest" only.

I'd vote for keeping our primary focus the rules system used by the
RuneQuest system and related systems. I'd hate to see the list turn into a
Glorantha discussion group. Like some others here, I have absolutely no use
for that setting!

->Peter

On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 8:27 PM, Lev Lafayette <lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au>
wrote:

> Hey people,
>
> I was just wondering if there was any strong feelings
> if the list name at the new host was simply called
> 'runequest' rather than 'rq-rules'?
>
> I understand there may have been historical reasons to
> differentiate between RuneQuest's default world
> (Glorantha) and RuneQuest the game system, but I'm not
> sure whether that is necessary anymore.
>
> All the best,
>
>
>
> Lev
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> _______________________________________________
> RQ-Rules mailing list
> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
>



-- 
Peter Maranci - pmaranci at gmail.com
Pete's RuneQuest & Roleplaying! http://www.runequest.org/rq.htm
The Diary of An Invisible Man: http://bobquasit.livejournal.com/
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From lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au  Wed Mar 26 13:30:10 2008
From: lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au (Lev Lafayette)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 19:30:10 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Rq-rules] rq-rules or just runequest?
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.1.20080325172339.03436c78@caprica.com>
Message-ID: <657874.87646.qm@web33505.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


--- Wayne Shaw <shaw at caprica.com> wrote:

> At 04:27 PM 3/25/2008, you wrote:
> >Hey people,
> >
> >I was just wondering if there was any strong
> feelings
> >if the list name at the new host was simply called
> >'runequest' rather than 'rq-rules'?
> >
> >I understand there may have been historical reasons
> to
> >differentiate between RuneQuest's default world
> >(Glorantha) and RuneQuest the game system, but I'm
> not
> >sure whether that is necessary anymore.
> 
> Depends.  I'm still somewhat interested in RQ as a
> rules set.  I'm 
> not in the least interested in Glorantha.
> 

No, I don't think there's any suggestion that the list
is to change the nature of the list. There's nothing
to be discussed about Glorantha, Alternate Earth,
Gateway RuneQuest etc here.

HTH,



Lev


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ


From peter.brink at brinkdata.se  Thu Mar 27 02:58:48 2008
From: peter.brink at brinkdata.se (Peter Brink)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:58:48 +0100
Subject: [Rq-rules] rq-rules or just runequest?
In-Reply-To: <952920.1564.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <952920.1564.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47EA72B8.9010109@brinkdata.se>

Lev Lafayette skrev:
> Hey people,
> 
> I was just wondering if there was any strong feelings
> if the list name at the new host was simply called
> 'runequest' rather than 'rq-rules'?
> 
> I understand there may have been historical reasons to
> differentiate between RuneQuest's default world
> (Glorantha) and RuneQuest the game system, but I'm not
> sure whether that is necessary anymore.
> 

The only objection I can come up with is the possibility of either 
Issaries or Mongoose or both complaining about the use of their 
trademark in the name of a list. Such complains might or might not have 
much substance, depending on where (in which country) the list is 
hosted. Issaries might also suggest that the list should be licensed 
under their online license, which I personally would strongly object 
against.

Beyond these rather petty objections I have nothing against a change of 
name.

/Peter Brink


From tomas.g.bjorklund at gmail.com  Thu Mar 27 03:03:50 2008
From: tomas.g.bjorklund at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tomas_Bj=F6rklund?=)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:03:50 +0100
Subject: [Rq-rules] rq-rules or just runequest?
In-Reply-To: <952920.1564.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <952920.1564.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5354585f0803260903p6c202c6fr6e4392b886ae80e3@mail.gmail.com>

No strong feelings. Either way is fine by me.


On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:27 AM, Lev Lafayette <lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au>
wrote:

> Hey people,
>
> I was just wondering if there was any strong feelings
> if the list name at the new host was simply called
> 'runequest' rather than 'rq-rules'?
>
> I understand there may have been historical reasons to
> differentiate between RuneQuest's default world
> (Glorantha) and RuneQuest the game system, but I'm not
> sure whether that is necessary anymore.
>
> All the best,
>
>
>
> Lev
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> _______________________________________________
> RQ-Rules mailing list
> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
>
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From leonbk at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 27 13:37:36 2008
From: leonbk at yahoo.com (Leon Kirshtein)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 19:37:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Rq-rules] rq-rules or just runequest?
In-Reply-To: <5354585f0803260903p6c202c6fr6e4392b886ae80e3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <638951.69172.qm@web51706.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Could not care less. Don't mind it discussing
Glorantha either, as long as it is in the framework of
rules.

Leon


--- Tomas Bj?rklund <tomas.g.bjorklund at gmail.com>
wrote:

> No strong feelings. Either way is fine by me.
> 
> 
> On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:27 AM, Lev Lafayette
> <lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au>
> wrote:
> 
> > Hey people,
> >
> > I was just wondering if there was any strong
> feelings
> > if the list name at the new host was simply called
> > 'runequest' rather than 'rq-rules'?
> >
> > I understand there may have been historical
> reasons to
> > differentiate between RuneQuest's default world
> > (Glorantha) and RuneQuest the game system, but I'm
> not
> > sure whether that is necessary anymore.
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> >
> >
> > Lev
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
> >
>
http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> > _______________________________________________
> > RQ-Rules mailing list
> > RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> > http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> RQ-Rules mailing list
> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> 



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping


From booksfleamarket at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 27 14:34:44 2008
From: booksfleamarket at yahoo.com (Ken & Juliane Murphy)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:34:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Rq-rules] *Big* damn centipedes
Message-ID: <80175.56032.qm@web42103.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

   Hiya gang,
     While there *are* stats for Giant Centipedes in one of the Troll sourcebooks (IIRC), I'm trying to find the real world weight of one of those giant south american centipedes (the ones that can exceed a foot in length), so I can give it the square cube treatment and generate a range of weights (and thus, backward-engineered SIZ reanges)
     Some entomological (sic?) help would bew greatly appreciated.
     Illuminate me!
    -Ken- 

       
---------------------------------
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From sdavies2720 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 28 03:01:58 2008
From: sdavies2720 at yahoo.com (Steve Davies)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 09:01:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Rq-rules] Re:  Giant Centipede Weight
In-Reply-To: <20080327033500.E6AA916067DF@mini.thinbits.net>
Message-ID: <423112.57493.qm@web53910.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

In order to procrastinate at work (thanks for the
help), I found this article: 
http://caribjsci.org/aug05/41_340-346.pdf which
describes a large centipede eating a bat.

Centipede length:  145mm
Centipede weight after eating:  15.2 g
Estimated Centipede weight before eating:  
   9.0 to 9.5g

I hope that helps

Steve



Steven D. Davies
PerfectJob Software
312.560.4577 mobile


From ghoyle1 at sbcglobal.net  Fri Mar 28 12:50:04 2008
From: ghoyle1 at sbcglobal.net (ghoyle1 at sbcglobal.net)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:50:04 -0500
Subject: [Rq-rules] rq-rules or just runequest?
In-Reply-To: <aa2df9f20803251838p1675b764s3141da0d81031603@mail.gmail.com>
References: <952920.1564.qm@web33504.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<aa2df9f20803251838p1675b764s3141da0d81031603@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47EC4ECC.9030301@sbcglobal.net>

I agree with Peter here.

Guy

Peter Maranci wrote:
> Well, I think that "RuneQuest Rules" expresses the historical purpose of 
> this list more accurately. That term includes rules systems which are 
> essentially RuneQuest, but don't go by that name - while "RuneQuest" 
> might be assumed to cover Mongoose "RuneQuest" only.
> 
> I'd vote for keeping our primary focus the rules system used by the 
> RuneQuest system and related systems. I'd hate to see the list turn into 
> a Glorantha discussion group. Like some others here, I have absolutely 
> no use for that setting!
> 
> ->Peter
> 
> On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 8:27 PM, Lev Lafayette 
> <lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au <mailto:lev_lafayette at yahoo.com.au>> wrote:
> 
>     Hey people,
> 
>     I was just wondering if there was any strong feelings
>     if the list name at the new host was simply called
>     'runequest' rather than 'rq-rules'?
> 
>     I understand there may have been historical reasons to
>     differentiate between RuneQuest's default world
>     (Glorantha) and RuneQuest the game system, but I'm not
>     sure whether that is necessary anymore.
> 
>     All the best,
> 
> 
> 
>     Lev
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>        
>      ____________________________________________________________________________________
>     Be a better friend, newshound, and
>     know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.
>      http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>     _______________________________________________
>     RQ-Rules mailing list
>     RQ-Rules at crashbox.com <mailto:RQ-Rules at crashbox.com>
>     http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Peter Maranci - pmaranci at gmail.com <mailto:pmaranci at gmail.com>
> Pete's RuneQuest & Roleplaying! http://www.runequest.org/rq.htm
> The Diary of An Invisible Man: http://bobquasit.livejournal.com/
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> RQ-Rules mailing list
> RQ-Rules at crashbox.com
> http://crashbox.com/mailman/listinfo/rq-rules



From gianni at basicrps.com  Sat Mar 29 04:00:07 2008
From: gianni at basicrps.com (Gianni)
Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:00:07 +0100
Subject: [Rq-rules] Shoehorning Thieves World into another world
Message-ID: <20080328170014.1DEB0161D7E5@mini.thinbits.net>


> > Lev Lafayette wrote:
> > >
> > > > I've had a plan for some eighteen months to use
> > > Thieves World (with quite a bit of hacking) for
> > > medieval Zanzibar.
> > >
> > >
> > > Lev
> > >
> > >>
> > Slaps forehead. Of course, an excellent idea and
> > that stonetown place on
> > zanzibar would be the perfect thieves warren. Also
> > you could have them
> > Ming treasure fleets pitching for a bit of adventure
> > and trade.
> 
> *nods* It's all there, isn't it?
> 
> Now I've just got to get around to running it :-)

Count me in :-)

G.

From booksfleamarket at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 31 12:52:00 2008
From: booksfleamarket at yahoo.com (Ken & Juliane Murphy)
Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 19:52:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Rq-rules] *Big* damn centipedes 
In-Reply-To: <20080327033500.E6AA916067DF@mini.thinbits.net>
Message-ID: <617559.59600.qm@web42107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>


   Steve Davies comments:

>In order to procrastinate at work (thanks for the  >help), I found this article:   >http://caribjsci.org/aug05/41_340-346.pdf which  >describes a large centipede eating a bat.    >Centipede length:  145mm  >Centipede weight after eating:  15.2 g  >Estimated Centipede weight before eating:    >9.0 to 9.5g  

 
  
   Thanks Steve,

   Using the stats as a jumping off point for some Square 

Cube wrangling (you know, where the doubling of an object's 

dimensions results in it having 8x weight).

   Now the book provided (RQ3 Troll material, I believe)stats 

for the creatures was, IIRC, for a 10m long example. 

Giant Centipede
Characteristics  Average 
STR 8D6   28  Move 5 
CON 12D6   42  Hit Points 42
SIZ 12D6   42  Fatigue 70 
INT 2    2
POW 2D6+3   10
DEX 3D6   10-11


 

Of course,the problem I have with something saying 

its for a 10m subject,that has that wide a SIZ range 

makes me wonder if the 12D6 has 10m at the top end of 

the scale, or is it supposed to be representing 

the 10m figure as being the average for one of 

these things.

   Something the size of a RW Giant Centipede 

(a foot long) looks to have a weight of around 83g.Some extrapolation later,

and we have some really *giant* giant centipedes...

Length (m) Weight(kg)  SIZ Equivalent

2.32  39   6

3  83   13

4.6  311.3   29

5  379.7   31

6  666   37

7  1039   42

8  1538   47

9  2183   51

10  3110   55

11  3962   58

12  5190   61

12.5  5829   62

13.92  8401   67

15  10122   69

16  12198   71

17  20093   72

18  17472   75

18.56  19923   77

 

   Out of curiosity, I compared the book-standard Giant Centepide 

to the above, and found that it seemed to range in from 2-3m to 

around 17m, with an average length of around 7m; the 10m version not being found.

   So I decided to alter the beastie in my bestiary as follows. The other stuff 

prettymuch has stayed unchanged, aside from addition of a poison

gas attack.

Giant Centipede
Characteristics  Average 
STR 4D6+18   32  Move 5 
CON 12D6   42  Hit Points 45
SIZ 8D6+20   48  Fatigue 70 
INT 2    2
POW 2D6+3   10
DEX 2D6+8   15
 
 
   Best,
  -Ken-


           


       
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From tom at zunder.org.uk  Mon Mar 31 22:35:17 2008
From: tom at zunder.org.uk (Thomas Zunder)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:35:17 +0100
Subject: [Rq-rules] *Big* damn centipedes
In-Reply-To: <617559.59600.qm@web42107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <617559.59600.qm@web42107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <47F0DA85.3020505@zunder.org.uk>

Wow. Do you get to get out much? :-P

No seriously, I know this is one of the things we all love to do with 
game systems: use them to categorise the world and/or our fantasy 
worlds..it's ship building in Traveller, character class writing in D&D, 
endless GURPS Magic debates about the interaction between real-world 
physics and sorcery..

In RQ, it's the size of Giant Centipedes relative to the SIZ table..