From: owner-rq-rules-digest To: rq-rules-digest@hops.wharton.upenn.edu Subject: RQ Rules Digest: V1 #94 Reply-To: rq-rules Errors-To: owner-rq-rules-digest Precedence: bulk Content-Return: Prohibited Return-Path: owner-rq-rules-digest RQ Rules Digest: Wednesday, 15 February 1995 Volume 01 : Number 094 RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to say "Yeah, I agree." Those who do will be lynched. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. RQR: will be prepended to it. 3. Do not engage in a point-by-point analysis or rebuttal of another person's message. It is too confusing for others to follow, qualifies as nit-picking, and it usually leads to flame wars. 4. There is no number 4. TABLE OF CONTENTS Steven E Barnes RQR: game balance Kirsten Jacobus RQR: RQ is not going to be GURPS David Cheng RQR: RunePower Blessings SPerrin@aol.com RQR: sorry, Ray Mustafa Unlu RQR: Divine Intervention Hugh Foster RQR: RQ Rules Digest: V1 #90 SPerrin@aol.com RQR: Defense subtraction SPerrin@aol.com RQR: Runepower SPerrin@aol.com RQR: Administrivia, getti... SPerrin@aol.com RQR: Losing MP w/POW SPerrin@aol.com RQR: Experience checks an... Loren Miller RQR: Losing MP w/POW Loren Miller RQR: Runepower Steven E Barnes RQR: Power ideas Steven E Barnes RQR: Power ideas ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: akuma@netcom.com (Steven E Barnes) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 11:30:51 -0800 Subject: Re: RQR: game balance Guy Robinson writes: >For my suggestion was that Initiates sacrifice for specific Divine >Magic and donates it to the Priest or RuneLord adding to the number >of points in the pool and/or increasing the range of Divine Magic >that can be drawn from the pool. Initiates that hold a recipient >in high regard would donate something that would be appreciated. I am working along similar lines, based off of Paul Reily's Presence ideas. I'll probably post something soon.... Anyway, Priests and Lords should recieve increased power from having followers. The crucial point is that if the followers desert them, that power also goes away, probably given to someone else. - -steve ------------------------------ From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Kirsten Jacobus) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 15:15:51 -0500 Subject: RQR: RQ is not going to be GURPS From what very little I've heard, RQ is not going to try the GURPS route. That is, it isn't just going to be a set of rules for ANY kind of game or even any kind of fantasy game. RQ is very well designed for a type of mystical, anthropological gaming. A "generalized" RQ would be one that emphasizes those strengths, one from which a Gloranthan RQ would then be a relatively trivial task to build, but not one that is just a Gloranthan RQ with a pathetically thin veneer of "generic" overlaid. ------------------------------ From: David Cheng Date: Wed, 15 Feb 95 14:48:34 EST Subject: RQR: RunePower Blessings Jeff Richard tells us about his "Heropath" modification to the RunePower system of Divine Magic. As the instigator of the not-so-original idea, I like Jeff's interpretation quite a bit. I especially like his example: Sveirtigson has performed six Heropath rituals, and can thus call upon six different "rune spells." But, he only has three Rune Points. Nowhere is it stated that Sviertigson had to have sacrificed for all six distinct spells previously. This is good. A truly devoted initiate will undertake the Heropath rituals even before he has the spare POW to sacrifice for Rune Points. To go further into 'game mechanics reflecting culture,' I'd suggest that each Heropath ritual learned is good for a check in the apprpriate Lore skill. Or, maybe success _requires_ a Cult Lore roll... Good stuff, - -DC * David Cheng drcheng@sales.stern.nyu.edu cheng@io.com (212) 472-7752 [before midnight EST] ------------------------------ From: SPerrin@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 15:24:56 -0500 Subject: RQR: Re: sorry, Ray While I don't agree with a lot of Dave Dunham's post, the more I think about it, the less I like My Distinguished Co-Author's idea about using spirits in spirit magic; and I didn't like it much to start with. Battle/Spirit magic is supposed to be people's magic: the sort of thing anyone can do with just a little study. To my mind, having to deal with spirits adds too much complexity to the situation for the cobbler who just wants to use a Glue spell to hold something together until he sews it up. Then again, perhaps Battle Magic should just be a separate entity entirely, a kind of people's sorcery that is based on magic skill and lots of extra time, as I suggested in an earlier post. That's just what we need, another magic system... Steve Perrin ------------------------------ From: Mustafa Unlu Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 15:25:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: RQR: Divine Intervention This stuff about DI success being dependant on POW is crap. Instead I am using SPs (Satisfaction Points) to determine whether DI is granted. After all, whether the God feels like intervening in the mundane on behalf of a follower doesn't really depend on how powerful the character is but more on how much they are liked by the God. In my world, which is alternate Earth, RQ3 (never even saw RQ2 before subscribing here), everyone begins with some SP (8+D6), and loses or gains it as they perform actions despised/favored by their God(ess)s(es). For example, if they convert others to their religion, they get SP, depending on the situation. I really don't have a hard and fast system, SPs are given and lost on the fly. Example: Two characters are fighting some trolls. They kill one, scare another off, and hurt the last so much that it drops its weapon and grovels for mercy. One of the characters, being a berserk war god follower, decides to execute the troll, and the other agrees. Too bad for the other character, she happened to be an initiate of the light goddess, who frowns upon evil deeds. She loses 1 SP. The berserker does not. When DI is called for, the character rolls % dice vs their SP for success. Whether they lose POW or not is again determined by the situation. M. ------------------------------ From: Hugh Foster <100326.446@compuserve.com> Date: 15 Feb 95 15:21:59 EST Subject: RQR: RQ Rules Digest: V1 #90 >>If there must be spirits attached to spells, that should be artifacts of a particular setting, not part of core rules.<< The trouble with that is that RQ only _has_ one setting (worse luck!) - Glorantha. It's all right saying it's generic, but killing Fantasy Europe showed which way the wind blew... ------------------------------ From: SPerrin@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 15:46:01 -0500 Subject: Re: RQR: Defense subtraction Steve Stair asks >>Didn't RQ2 have you subtract your defense from your opponent's hit percentage?<< As did RQ1. That was one of my brainstorms that got overruled for RQ3. In retrospect, I think it was the best idea--the subtraction was an extra step and jarring element in a combat round, and some people have a lot of trouble subtracting 15% from an attack roll on the fly, not to mention the times when you get "Got you!", "Damn, missed the parry." "Take seven points to your 12." "Ouch--no, wait a minute, I have a Defense of 15%, you missed after all." "What!?!" Steve Perrin ------------------------------ From: SPerrin@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 15:46:30 -0500 Subject: Re: RQR: Runepower I have been assuming that David Cheng and I have the same idea, but maybe I need a reality check. My theory is that the user of RunePower must sacrifice for points of Divine Magic as before, they just don't get applied to specific spells. Also, as with the original rules, these points get used up and the user must get back to a temple/holy spot and pray to get the use of the points back. Perhaps a successful ritual spell in any no-worse-than-neutral spot would be sufficient. From others discussion, I get the impression that the ChengPower pool is inexhaustible. This is not what I have in mind. Could I get a little explication? If everyone else already knows, just email me direct. Steve Perrin ------------------------------ From: SPerrin@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 15:46:08 -0500 Subject: Re: RQR: Administrivia, getti... Huzzah! Also, could we all pay more attention to the Subject line of our communiques? Update these subject lines, people. If nothing else, it makes for a more esthetic mail list, and frequently subject lines have nothing to do with subject matter as the discussion wanders far away from the original subject, but the subject line is still talking about, for instance, exponential characteristics when we are actually discussing something else entirely. Steve Perrin ------------------------------ From: SPerrin@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 15:46:34 -0500 Subject: RQR: Re: Losing MP w/POW Assuming that MP are retained and become exponentially related to POW, I have a problem with Loren's idea of losing MP with POW (assuming a temporary POW loss). Simply put, I object to having to look at a chart to see just how much MP has been lost. And would this be a loss of enough MP to take the Bat (to use the current example) down to what he gets with the next POW, or the whole amount associated with that number, regardless of how much he has expended already? This question is, of course, a lot more important to a heroic level human than to the Bat. Makes the no MP argument sound even better... Steve Perrin ------------------------------ From: SPerrin@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 15:46:49 -0500 Subject: Re: RQR: Experience checks an... Loren suggests: >>I have a simpler idea than Ray's idea. Every time you use a skill, whether you succeed or fail, you check it. This also works with diceless play of RQ. When you have 24 hours (3 full 8-hour days of practice) to learn from your experience you roll above your skill to advance. I don't see any reason to stop characters from learning weak skills by giving them a different kind of roll, I'd rather limit them by putting a constraint which is real in the gameworld on it (the X hours of practice thing).<< Actually, considering my usual dice luck, I think this is a fabulous idea. Steve Perrin ------------------------------ From: "Loren Miller" Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 15:57:27 EST Subject: RQR: Losing MP w/POW Hi Steve, you write: >Assuming that MP are retained and become exponentially related to >POW, I have a problem with Loren's idea of losing MP with POW >(assuming a temporary POW loss). I would have a problem with that too. I do not advocate using both MP and temporary POW loss. One of them is entirely enough. In fact, I'm specifically thinking about how to give a MP-less game the right "feel" for RQ players. The ONLY reason I put up the table is for conversion from old versions of RQ to this hypothetical new system. - -- +++++++++++++++++++++++23 Loren Miller LOREN@marketing.wharton.upenn.edu Life at the water's edge is the real life for men and women ------------------------------ From: "Loren Miller" Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 15:59:21 EST Subject: Re: RQR: Runepower Steve Perrin wants to know if the Cheng Runepower points are inexhaustible. Not the way I understand them. You have to recover them at worship ceremonies just like standard RuneMagic. - -- +++++++++++++++++++++++23 Loren Miller LOREN@marketing.wharton.upenn.edu Life at the water's edge is the real life for men and women ------------------------------ From: akuma@netcom.com (Steven E Barnes) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 13:10:04 -0800 Subject: RQR: Power ideas ------------------------------ From: akuma@netcom.com (Steven E Barnes) Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 13:11:14 -0800 Subject: RQR: Power ideas Well, here's the ideas I've been contemplating. In the words of our House Speaker, "They are just nutty ideas". I don't care if they make it into RQ4 or not... I do plan to use them in my campaign. These ideas are based off of Paul Reilly's Presence/Vessel ideas. These ideas are a bit vague, but are intended to be a "unified theory of magic". First off, characters have a stat called Will(*), measuring one's spiritual strength. This stat does not increase, except through training. It does not normally decrease. Next is what I call Power (or Presence, MPs, whatever). This stat starts equal to one's Will, and increases slowly over the life of the character. There may or may not be an upper limit on Power. If there is a limit, it will be beyond the reach of the typical PC lifespan. This is done to prevent the RQ problem of the "use it or lose it" attitude towards POW (people who accumulate POW, will succeed in fewer POW checks, and eventually reach 21, at which point, all further POW checks are wasted). Characters will gain a certain number of "Power checks" a year, based on magical activity. If the character rolls Will x 5%, his Power increases. Will is used for RR rolls in spiritual and magical combat. Power is devoted to various entities, for various purposes. It is rarely lost permanantly, as that is an effect of Chaos. To the character, it may seem as if Power granted to a diety is "gone". The characters "current Power" reflects the amount of points devoted to other entities. If the current Power is lower than Will, Power is used when making RR rolls. Power can be allocated to various things: Dieties - Determines the amount of "divine pool" available, and also the worshippers access to DI. Second Self (Fetch / Ally). The Shaman binds his fetch to the Spirit World giving him a permanent presence there. This is essential for gaining shamanistic abilities. (such abilities are probably skill based, rather than based on the size of the Fetch, as in RQ:AiG) The divine worshipper binds the Ally in a different manner. The benefits are essentially an extra spell casting action. The Second Self seems to be a separate entity from its owner, possessing greater spiritual understanding. To the Rune Lord, the Ally seems to have greater magical ability. Upon attaining Hero status, the quester may realize that this great power and knowledge was his all along, thus discovering his own divine nature. The Fetch/Ally can merge its Power with the owner. When operating independantly, it acts with a Will equal to its Power or its owner's Will, whichever is lower. It shares spells, knowledge and MPs with its owner. Individuals - A devoted follower can grant a point of Power to a leader or mentor. The leader will lose such points if the follower renounces him. Spirits - There exist spirits of places (temples, cities, homes), and groups (clans, regiments). Associates of these spirits donate a point of Power. I am unsure whether temple Wyters are group spirits, or actually the Ally of the high priest. Enchantments - A permanent magical effect. Most will disappate after the death of their creator. If the enchantment is destroyed, the Power will return to the creator. There is probably a way to sever the Power from the enchanter, so that the enchamentment will persist after death. Attunement - some items require Power to attune. The Power returns if the item is unattuned. The Vessel - the Sorceror shuns contact with the Other World, and chooses to bind his Power into a physical object. This allows him to enhance the effectiveness of his spells in the mundane world. The Power of the Vessel can be used for MP storage, but its primary use is to maintain Sorcery spells. Illumination / God Learners - The Illuminate, having greater self knowledge, understands these concepts to a greater degree than the typical practicioner, and can probably exploit them in special ways. Note that these ideas beg the question of whether gods and spirits truely exist, or whether they are creations of the human subconcious. I am leaning towards the latter viewpoint... (*) = Will is the stat used in every unpublished Heroquest system I've seen. It is my belief that this stat should be part of character creation, rather than backwards-computed through arcane means when PCs begin to do HQs. It also fills a useful role in mundane roleplaying. Note that gods and spirits may have a Will rating for RR rolls, but from a HQ perspective, lack "free Will". - -steve ------------------------------ End of RQ Rules Digest: V1 #94 ****************************** This is the bottom of the RuneQuest Rules Digest. RuneQuest is a trademark of Avalon Hill, and Glorantha is a trademark of Chaosium. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval. Send electronic mail to Majordomo@hops.wharton.upenn.edu with "help" in the body of the message for subscription information on this and other mailing lists.