From: owner-rq-rules-digest To: rq-rules-digest@hops.wharton.upenn.edu Subject: RQ Rules Digest: V2 #5 Reply-To: rq-rules Errors-To: owner-rq-rules-digest Precedence: bulk Content-Return: Prohibited Return-Path: owner-rq-rules-digest RQ Rules Digest: Friday, 7 July 1995 Volume 02 : Number 005 TABLE OF CONTENTS Kevin Rose arrows and magic Cedric Chausson Possible systems for size, range, speed mo Cedric Chausson Random hit locations (fwd) Cedric Chausson Hemorragy ryan_moore@wbntul021.wiltel. RQ Rules Digest: V2 #4 rstaats@mail.lmi.org Combining various magical types and ``scht Thomas Michael Cantine Hemorragy RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. When paraphrasing you demonstrate exactly how well you understand the point someone was trying to make. 4. There is no number 4. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kevin Rose Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 23:02:50 -0500 (CDT) Subject: re: arrows and magic > To which I must comment that the Byzantines and Mamlukes both trained troops > in horse archery, and the Byzantines in particular (like the Mongols) were not > adverse to dismounting to shoot I was under the impression that the Mamlamukes were normally nomads who used the bow but were recruited by the other Arabs, at least the ones who waxed the Mongols. The later ones became more a tradition bound and rigid class, or so I have been led to belive. I'd forgotten about the Byzantines. > Aden > it says that he uses both shield and > protection. I always thought that theses two spells were not cumulative and > only the higher one actually took effect. Any idea's? > In the official rules, they are cumulative. In most of the varient systems I've seen, Rune magic can combine for cumulative effect with either sorcery or spirit magic. Some people find the combination unbalancing and won't allow it to work. Some of us just deal with it. > On a related note: > Can you cast bladesharp and truesword on the same weapon? > Yes, and they both work also > Can you cast bludgeon and crush on the same weapon? > Yes again > Can you cast protection and damage resitance on the same person? > Yes offically, but not in most of the varient systems and house rules that have appeared. Most people find that allowing spirt magic and sorcery to combine results in disgusting effects. (Although I one upon a time asked Stafford about the apparent grossness of it [particular example used was fireblade and damage boost] and he said that it was intentional.) > > It is more fun to play a character who is able to hit the target. > This means that the NPCs can hit targets as well, but missile fire > *is* a devastating form of attack. The PCs need to make some sort of > provision to avoid being peppered with sling bullets, arrows, etc. > Most players can handle having their PCs shot or harmed in a way that > seems reasonable by an NPC, but it is very frustrating for the players > to be told that their well laid plan fails because arrows don't > really work against moving targets. Yes, but it the same problem you face when you point out that LAWs don't blow up buildings very well. Or the players find out that climbing on the tank and opening the hatch so you can throw in the grenade doesn't really work. Life is hard. Reality sucks. > Invoking the Petersen Principle, > it is much more fun to play in a world where arrows are deadly. > > We should avoid making the system too complex. Windage, type of > bow, mass of the missile, actions by the target, the type and > consistency of the cover, etc. are all important, but it would be an > unwieldy combat system indeed to include all those factors. Arrows and other missle weapons are effective, no doubt. Particularly if you are on the side without missles. But if you simplify and reduce the problems too much you end up with superweapons. Superweapons quickly reduce the game to sillyness. What do you consider significant factors to be taken into account? What do you think the chance of a horse archer (100% with bow and ride), on a horse in a run, shooting a running man at 200 meters? I'd say it is maybe 10% per shot. > > Rich Staats > Kevin Rose ------------------------------ From: Cedric Chausson Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 09:55:04 GMT Subject: Possible systems for size, range, speed modifiers Kevin Rose wrote: >The missle rules most certainly should include rules for target and >shooter movement and target size. A quick list of factors folowed (deleted: >The fun comes in how you evaluate them and put them together to produce a >system. As for size it looks like there is already something in the RQ3 which (shame on me) I had forgotten. BTW, is it something like +/-5% per Size Point? Alternatively you could use the Gurps modifier for size(the rate of conversion is 7.5% per 1 point of Gurps modifier although I suspect this solution will not be retained by everyone as there seems to be at least one person which is not too enamoured of Gurps. As for speed, it might be possible to base something on the RQ movement value of although not having my books here I cannot do some number crunching here. Could also be possible to have a generic modifier for each state of movement. Like say -5% for someone who is walking, -15% for someone jogging, -40% for someone running. This has the advantage of being simple. Its disadvantage derives from this simplicity. Evey target will have the same modifier whatever the differences i the actual movement rates. Another solution as always is again the Gurps modifiers for Speed. There are also some possibilities for range. First of all derives diferent range categories for each weapon: Short, Medium, Long and Extreme. Medium range is twice Short range, Long range is twice Medium range. Since RQ gives the maximum range for weapon you can derive Long range by dividing Extreme range by two. The modifiers to hit would be according to each range. Short range would carry no modifier unless you conducted an aimed shot which would give you a modifier of +10%. Medium range would carry a modifier of -10%. Long range would carry a modifier of -20% and Extreme range would carry a modifier of -40%. Again one possibility would be the Gurps modifiers for range(still for the on Gurpsphobic :-) ). Cedric the Heretic C.P.Chausson@stud.man.ac.uk "Violence is always a possible solution... but it is only rarely the best" ------------------------------ From: Cedric Chausson Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 10:04:06 GMT Subject: RE: Random hit locations (fwd) Keith Craig wrote that my system of rolling randomn die location only if success was not great semed to him "A reasonably good idea." Gee ,thanks a lot. But actually as I have already written I have realized it does not make sense for normal combat. But I think I might be using it for aimed shots. A character doing an aimed shot has a modifier acording to the location he wants to hit. If his roll is better than his skill minus the modifier than he hits the loacation he wants to hit. If his roll is comprised within his skill% and his skill% minus the modifier than he hits but location is determined randomnly. For example, somebody trying to hit the arm(-15%) who has a 56% skill will hit the arm if his roll is from 01 to 40. The location will be determined randomnly if the roll is between 41 and 56%. Cedric the Heretic C.P.Chausson@stud.man.ac.uk "Violence is always a possible solution... but it is only rarely the best" ------------------------------ From: Cedric Chausson Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 10:15:55 GMT Subject: Hemorragy Hi all, I would like to thank the person on this list with medical experience which gave precisions on how deadly wounds could be. I am sorry but I deleted his message so I do not remember his name. But there is one thing I would like to ask. People dying in seconds due to a well placed cutting wound are ,of course, possible. But this would be due to to big heavy wound. The problem in RQ is that you might get to the bleeding stage with not one wound but a couple of lighter wounds. In this case I think that dying might take a little longer and the procedure of having a die roll at each round would be more justified. What do you think of this? Maybe we could simulate the devastating effect of a single wound enough to take the person to bleding stage by itself by making the number of HPs lost proportional to the damage taken. Say one wounds causes 12 points of damage and that is enough to bring a member to bleeding stage than the victim would lose say 4 points per round if the roll is not made(that is one third of damage taken). Cedric the Heretic C.P.Chausson@stud.man.ac.uk "Violence is always a possible solution... but it is only rarely the best" ------------------------------ From: ryan_moore@wbntul021.wiltel.com Date: Fri, 7 Jul 95 15:48:37 CDT Subject: re: RQ Rules Digest: V2 #4 Thanks to all of you who answered my questions.. Is heroquest still "coming out soon"? I thought it was dead. Will it be AH or Choasium. In reference to David's comment about pwerful western sorcerers...are there powerful (or not so pwerful) sorcerers from other places on glorantha? i.e. Kralorea or Esrolia One of my players swears up and down that he read about Esrolian sorcerers but I have yet to find any referecne to it. On another note are sorcerers specifically prevented from joinig cults or do they simply choose not too. I assume that the Lunar religions would have no problems with sorcerers. Ryan Moore Email Support LDDS Worldcom, Tulsa OK Phone: 588-5052 Email: ryan_moore@wiltel.com ------------------------------ From: rstaats@mail.lmi.org Date: Fri, 07 Jul 95 07:55:23 EST Subject: Re: Combining various magical types and ``schtuff'' Greetings! I'm generally opposed to combining sorcery with spirit and divine magic. Another nice feature of RQ which would be a good idea(tm) to preserve in RQ IV would be the ability to truly tailor a character and make PC's unique. The presence of ``omni-flex'' attributes and universally compatible and available skills start to make all adventurers look alike. The Cults in RQ are a nice touch in that they have specialized magic and skills not available at large. So, a Storm Kahn does not look like a clone of a Death Lord, etc. The more skills and spells held *off* of the common list, the more unique we'll see the PCs and NPCs in practice. (As a good friend of mine says ``a good GM can overcome any inherent weakness or annoyance in a RPG system, but not everyone is a good GM.'') Just my two clacks, Rich Staats ------------------------------ From: Thomas Michael Cantine Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 21:53:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Hemorragy On Fri, 7 Jul 1995, Cedric Chausson wrote: [greeting and a bit deleted] > Maybe we could simulate the devastating effect of a single wound > enough to take the person to bleding stage by itself by making the > number of HPs lost proportional to the damage taken. Say one wounds > causes 12 points of damage and that is enough to bring a member to > bleeding stage than the victim would lose say 4 points per round if > the roll is not made(that is one third of damage taken). I think it's important always to remember that the mechanics of any game system are an abstraction of what happens, and you shouldn't think of them too concretely in their particular details, but rather consider their overall effect. In the case of bleeding from a bunch of little wounds versus one big one, look at the existing in-game survivability of both cases. 1) A guy gets a whole lot of little injuries, and somewhere in there he ends up bleeding out 1 HP per melee round. Gosh, all of a sudden, he realizes he's lost a lot more blood than he thought from all those little scratches, and maybe he ought to have run away or something when he had the chance. The point to remember here is that the extra HP per round does NOT have to represent bleeding from any particular wound (perhaps that first little 1 HP went deeper than it felt, and all the other blows since really WERE superficial, including the one that "technically" prompted the bleeding); what it really means in game terms is that this guy is going to pass out and possibly die unless he sits down very soon and puts on a couple of Band-Aids. In other words, he needs some First Aid. 2) Out of the blue, a perfectly healthy fellow gets smacked with a halberd and starts spouting blood at an alarming rate. This is a lot more straightforward, and probably what we all have in mind when we think of a character bleeding. But First Aid is what he needs to save his life. The important point here is that just because the same skills is used to stop the bleeding (and with the same chance of success, though not necessarily the same number of retries) and MAYBE the same number of melee rounds might be available before the guy dies, they don't need to be roleplayed the same way. Perhaps the first aid applied to the guy in (1) really is nothing more than making him lie down (but it would still take a successful roll to realize this, calm him down, and put him into a safe posture before cleaning him up), while the treatment for (2) is the more dramatic M*A*S*H business. I don't think we need to make a rules distinction between the two sorts of patients. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Thomas M. Cantine "My theory, which is mine, is mine. g9326443@mcmaster.ca And I own it, too." ============================================================================== ------------------------------ End of RQ Rules Digest: V2 #5 ***************************** This is the bottom of the RuneQuest Rules Digest. RuneQuest is a trademark of Avalon Hill, and Glorantha is a trademark of Chaosium. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval. Send electronic mail to Majordomo@hops.wharton.upenn.edu with "help" in the body of the message for subscription information on this and other mailing lists. WWW material at http://hops.wharton.upenn.edu/~loren/rolegame.html