From: owner-rq-rules-digest To: rq-rules-digest@hops.wharton.upenn.edu Subject: RQ Rules Digest: V3 #63 Reply-To: rq-rules Errors-To: owner-rq-rules-digest Precedence: bulk Content-Return: Prohibited Return-Path: owner-rq-rules-digest RQ Rules Digest: Wednesday, 11 September 1996 Volume 03 : Number 063 TABLE OF CONTENTS cromlech cromlech@zip.com.au Sorcery SPerrin@aol.com RQ Miniatures David Bailey RQ Sorcery Rules Chris Klug Sorcery albert@emerald.cybergate.com Sorcery David Cake RQ Rules Digest: V3 #61 RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. When paraphrasing you demonstrate exactly how well you understand the point someone was trying to make. 4. There is no number 4. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cromlech Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:58:49 +1100 Subject: Re: Sorcery You don't create them you summon them and place thenm in a binding enchantment they are in the creatures book and have pow 2d10 int 1d6 you can then use the int to store spells. ------------------------------ From: SPerrin@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 02:30:26 -0400 Subject: Re: RQ Miniatures From Glenn Glazer >>I Said: >>As long as Scott is touting miniatures (some of which are no longer in >>production, I believe), I might as well say that I sell games and >>games-related items by mail. 20% discount, no sales tax unless you are in >>California, but you do have to pay postage and handling so orders of one or >>two items really aren't worth it--the P&H eats up the discount. >> >>Steve Perrin >>SPerrin@aol.com >>10091 San Pablo Court >>Fountain Valley, CA 92708 > >And then he said: >Really? What do you have in terms of old Gloranthan-related material? > >-Glenn Sorry, I should have made it clear that I deal in new and still-in-print games. In fact, I've sold most of my old Gloranthan stuff at various auctions and flea markets... Steve ------------------------------ From: David Bailey Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:10:15 +0000 (GMT) Subject: RQ Sorcery Rules I've had a number of people ask me for our Sorcery rules and I've had a problem or two with addresses (samil@kure1.pudis.fi in particular) so I'm preying on peoples time. Sorry about the format but I've haven't had time to figure out attaching docs to mail yet. You're only getting the mechanics 'cause a lot of it links into the world we have going, even so there are references to things outside this doc. Also keep in mind that there are orders, guilds or what ever setup to regulate these arts. One of the primary reasons for doing it this way was that we didn't want to spend hours in and out of game time messing about with hundreds of new spells and making sure they're not to powerful or pointless. This is especially true because the sorcery spells will be doing very much what the batle/runes spells do anyway eg Healing. This way we have the spells ready regulated and creating new ones is easy 'cause they fit into a clearly defined structure. New sorcery spells are just written as rune/battle spells and not assigned to a cult. Changing the flavour of sorcery spells V runes spells is just a matter of what they have access to. In practice we've found, not to anybodies suprise, that the big D&D Bawoosh spells are just too powerful. They still have access to Shattering etc but their real strength comes in potentially being able to have access to spells from different areas. In our game we keep the same spell names and mechanics but the philosophy, practical aspects or nature of the effect may be different depending on the tradition eg A mage from the college of dark arts casts disruption and it appears as though the skin is melting wereas others may have sparks leap from the fingers. These are not covered by the rules and are born of good roleplaying. In practice it works well and new players have little problem with them. They provide flexibility and a highly skilled mage can make himself impervious to weapons with Protection 20 etc. Any ideas or comments are welcome if not demanded. In particular I'm thinking about rewritting the fumble table so any new twists will be grasped with both hands. Enjoy. Dave Bailey *********************************************************************** SORCERY I) The Skills All sorcery skills are based on the magic skill bonus which is as follows; Stat 1-4 5-9 10-12 13-15 17-20 +4 INT 0 0 0 +5% +10% +5% POW -5% 0 0 +5% +10% +5% DEX -10% -5% 0 0 +5% +5% RANGE (0%, MAG 500/1000/2000/4000), use of this spell doubles the range of a spell or adds 10 feet to the range, whichever is appropriate. For halving the skill you can further double the range ad infinitum. Criticals quadruple the range, Impales double it and Fumbles reduce the range to touch. CEREMONY (10%, MAG 500/1000/2000/4000). By successfully using this spell one can convert time invested in spell preparation into a bonus to the chance of success. You get 5% for the first hour and 5% for each doubling after that, e.g. +10% for 2 hours, +15% for 4 hours, +20% for 8 hours. Bear in mind that these hours must be contiguous and immediately precede the casting of the spell. The spell must be specified before hand. Criticals triple the bonus, Impales double the bonus, fumbles mean the spell fails automatically. DOWSING (5%, KNOW 500/1000/EXP/EXP). Since POW flows around the universe much as rivers and casting spells is easier with more available POW it is better to cast spells on these POW rivers. They are called Ley Lines. This skill allows the sorcerer to find these lines and thus improve their chances of a successful casting. If a spell is cast whilst standing on a minor line then they gain +5%, +10 for medium and +15% for a major line. These bonuses are cumulative so if the caster is standing on the crossroads for two or more lines the bonus is based on all lines tapped. R/W RUNIC (0%, KNOW 500,1000,2000,4000). This is a curious language unique to sorcerers. It is a cult secret of Sohr Vandrel and it is not a spoken language, only written. It is used in some way to convey knowledge about spell casting from the page into the mage's mind semi directly. The script itself is magical in nature and it is used by sorcerers to inscribe their spells books or by Enchanters to empower items. II) Learning Spells There are two ways of learning sorcery spells, these are; i) Divine Intervention by Sohr Vandrel. ii) Be taught the spell by a Sohr Vandrel priest who uses the rune spell Spell Teaching and who has mastered the spell being taught. It therefore becomes evident that all sorcery spells are cult secrets of Sohr Vandrel, to learn these skills one must join that cult as an initiate or better. Reprisal spirits will prevent 'misuse' of these skills as would be expected for any cult secret. All Battle and Rune Magic spells exist as sorcery spells with the same mechanics and rules, including duration. The exception is Divine Intervention which may exist but there is some evidence to suggest that Sohr Vandrel doesn't like being pestered too much by the same person. Extension and Multispell exist but in different forms. Sorcery spells are split into different levels according to the difficulty in casting as follows; Level Class 1 1 Point Battle Magic + Variable spells 2 2 Point Battle Magic 3 3 Point Battle Magic 4 4 Point Battle Magic 5 1 Point Reusable Rune Magic 6 2 Point Reusable Rune Magic 7 3 Point Reusable Rune Magic 8 1 Point Non Reusable Rune Magic 9 2 Point Non Reusable Rune Magic +1 each additional point The spells can be purchased for the following costs and the initial ability with the spell as indicated plus MAGIC bonus; Lvl Base Cost Training Cost 1 50% 1/2xStnd 100/200/400/800 (Var 1500 400/800/1600/3200) 2 40% Stnd 200/400/800/1600 3 30% Stnd 300/600/1200/2000 4 20% Stnd 400/800/1600/3200 5 10% 1500 500/1000/2000/EXP 6 0% 3000 600/1200/2400/EXP 7 -10% 4500 700/1400/2800/EXP 8 -20% 6000 800/1600/3200/EXP 9 -30% 7500 900/1800/3600/EXP +1 -10% +1500 +100/x2/x2/EXP Stnd = as per the battle magic cost. Sorcery spells take up memory just like normal spells equivalent to there level/2, rounded up. Sorcery spells are treated as ordinary skills, they can be trained, improved through experience and can go over 100% with divine aid. III) Casting Spells A spell cannot be cast if you do not know it, there is NOT the usual 5% chance of doing something. The base percentage for any spell is subject to recalculation based upon the following factors; i) Successful use of the Ceremony skill ii) All spells can be boosted as per standard magic so that is can punch through magical defenses etc. Each additional point added to the spell incurs a 5% penalty. iii) Every 10 whole encumbrance points of any metal incurs a 5% penalty. iv) Level 1 variable sorcery spells such as Healing are deemed to be 1 point spells but can be boosted by one level at a 10% penalty so long as the percentage chance of successfully casting the spell doesn't drop below 5%. e.g. If a healer had 70% Healing and wanted to cast Healing 6 he could do so but at 20%. v) The sorcery spells that equate to stackable rune spells can be increased by 1 stacking level at a 20% penalty so long as the chance of successfully casting the spell doesn't drop below 5% e.g . A sorcerer with 45% Shield could cast Shield 3 but only at 5%. He could also just cast Shield three times at 45% if he had time. vi) Additional bonuses may be due if the sorcerer is tapping any ley lines. Having calculated the chance of success the sorcerer must expend power as a catalyst to the spell. All level 1-4 spells require 1 point of POW, 5-7 require 2 points and 8+ 3 points. All other power required for the spell is supplied by the environment. Sorcery does not destroy power any more than rune magic or battle magic, the difference between all forms is the source for the spells power. Special results are as follows; an Impale success reduces the catalyst power cost by 1 point, critical by 2 points. e.g. Impaling a level 1 spell would negate the 1 point cost. Fumbles roll on the table. Spells then take effect as per their standard descriptions. Spell Fumble Table 01-18 Stunned 1D3 rounds, unable to caste any other spell. 19-20 Sorcerer is knocked unconscious for 1D6 rounds. 21-27 Sorcerer receives an appropriate madness at level one. e.g Fear of fire if casting Ignite. 28-30 Sorcerer receives an appropriate madness at level 1D3. 31-50 1D3 Temp POW lost 51-57 1D6 Temp POW lost 58-60 2D6 Temp POW lost 61-69 POW source disrupted. If the catalyst POW was taken from a crystal it is destroyed. If from a spirit it is freed etc. 70-72 The spell has been lost if it was not cast from memory. 73-74 Spell forgotten and/or lost totally. 75-85 1 permanent POW point lost. 86-89 1D3 permanent POW loss 90 1D6 permanent POW loss 91-99 Spell has reverse effects or ref judgement given no obvious opposite. 100 Roll Twice on this table and apply both results. NB +5% per additional level attempted in the spell. 1 IV) The Spells Stacking Limits for reusable rune spells do not apply unless they are permanent spells. e.g. Enchant Weapon or Matrix Creation. Variable spells such as bladesharp no longer have stacking limits either. Extension and Multispell are treated as 1 point stackable spells e.g. Multispell allows the sorcerer to cast 2 spells at once, with a -20% penalty he could cast three and so on. ------------------------------ From: Chris Klug Date: Wed, 11 Sep 96 15:08:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Sorcery Talking about sorcery: >As for the system being unbalanced, I hold that it isn't as unbalanced > as it first appears. There are two things that are generally held to > be unbalancing. The first thing is the ability for ordinary, > non-specialist sorcery-using characters to cast very powerful spells > (albeit at a low chance). A warrior type with an INT of 15 who uses > sorcery might know the three spells of "Damage Boosting", "Treat Wounds" > and "Palsy". He probably won't have an Intensity skill of above 40%, > so this is for practical purposes the limit on his chances to cast any > magic. However if he casts "Damage Boosting" he has enough Free Int to > make his weapon make 13 extra points of damage (Intesity 12). In my campaigns, what I did was allow the spells to be taught as NPCs and characters desired, but made the sorcery skills strictly known only by adepts and mages. Thus, anyone might know Damage Boost, but could only cast it at an Intensity of 1, and Duration of 10 minutes. Chris Klug ------------------------------ From: albert@emerald.cybergate.com Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 13:37:54 +0000 Subject: Re: Sorcery > From: jewahr@hts.pp.se (Jesper Wahrner) > Date: 11 Sep 96 03:43:10 +0100 > Subject: Sorcery > Organization: HeathTech Systems/2 > To: RQ-Rules@hops.wharton.upenn.edu > Reply-to: RQ-Rules@hops.wharton.upenn.edu > > Albert Ramirez: > > al> The sorcery magic system in RQ is unbalanced and easily abused by > al> players. What modifications can you guys suggest to make it work > al> better? As of now I use it only as an NPC magic system. > > Get new players who don't abuse the system? No, seriously, I quite > like the sorcery system but some things must be considered while > using it. The main thing is to establish the background of the > sorcery using character and make sure that he learns spells that > are appropriate to it. Give him a selection of spells to chose from > dependent on his magical background. Make up a lot of spells on your > own and encourage your player to do it too as long at it fits in his > tradition. > > As for the system being unbalanced, I hold that it isn't as unbalanced > as it first appears. There are two things that are generally held to > be unbalancing. The first thing is the ability for ordinary, > non-specialist sorcery-using characters to cast very powerful spells > (albeit at a low chance). A warrior type with an INT of 15 who uses > sorcery might know the three spells of "Damage Boosting", "Treat Wounds" > and "Palsy". He probably won't have an Intensity skill of above 40%, > so this is for practical purposes the limit on his chances to cast any > magic. However if he casts "Damage Boosting" he has enough Free Int to > make his weapon make 13 extra points of damage (Intesity 12). > > The question arises: Is it a good idea to do this? My answer is: Sometimes, > but only rarely. Granted, on some occasions such as when facing a > heavily armoured foe such as a Giant, or a Rune Lord with his magic on > this might save the day. Or when being outnumbered by people that are > good at parrying. Otherwise casting such a powerful spell is just > a waste of time and mp. It will occupy him for two rounds with only > a small chance for success and if he does succeed he will be magically > drained unless he has lots of mp-storing objects. Having powerful > magic running is a good way of making oneself a target for enemyspells. > And on most occasions there will be little practical difference between > being hit by a weapon with damageboosting 12 or one with bladesharp 5. > The hitlocation will be disabled in both cases. But as I said at some > times a really powerful spell might come in handy but this isn't so > often that it will unbalance the game. The drawbacks of the sorcery- > system well compensates for this, namely: Low chances at success, > mp-expensive spells, crappy healing and crappy protectionspells. > > If available high Intensity-spells for ordinary people still doesn't > fit into your campaign, I would suggest simply put a limit on how > high intensity can be cast. My suggestion would be the character's skill > in the spell in question/10, so a character with 63% in a spell could > cast an intensity 6 version of the spell. You might wish to make > it the characters skill in intensity/10 instead, but that would make > spells like Palsy virtually useless. > > The other thing that is usually claimed to unbalance the game is the > ability of full sorcerors to cast spells with very long duration. I > think that this ability is important for making a sorceror interesting. > He can influence events without being there. By casting his magic on > for example a knight on a quest he'll do more good than if he for some > reason was out adventuring on his own. But to do this he needs duration. > In my opinion sorcerors make lousy adventurers, but interesting PC:s > if the campaign is centred on anything else than mere monsterbashing and > adventuring. > > Still, if long durations disturbs you, youll only have to rewrite the > duration table into something your campaign can handle. (The extra tables > involved are my own largest complaint against the sorcery system.) > > I don't know if there are anything else you find unbalancing in the sorcery- > system? If so, let us know. > > Yours, > Jesper > > > ... Hal 9000: "Dave, put those Windows 95 disks down....Dave... > --- Blue Wave/386 v2.21 > > .--> > | Jesper Wahrner 2:201/293 > | internet email: jewahr@hts.pp.se > `----> > The duration of sorcery spells is the biggest problem with the sorcery system. Becuase of it, everyone in the party ends up with a Damage Boosting on almost every weapon they own and everyone has damage resistence up at all times. Granted, because of the duration, they can only put a few points of these speels up, but it is still unbalancing. Albert Ramirez, J.D. : Deep Space Nine: To boldly stay where albert@cybergate.com : no one has stayed before. "Trucha con la lucha" : ------------------------------ From: davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake) Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 22:53:00 +0800 Subject: Re: RQ Rules Digest: V3 #61 >>>3. Shield: Can one critical past it (and how?) ? >> >> Yep. Criticals ignore Shield. And Protection. And almost all other >>defensive magics and armour >Could I have references for that statement: is this a local rule or did I >miss something... You missed something. In RQ3 in the players book magical armour protection is described as being equivalent to armour. I can't find my Players book offhand (so I guess its conceivable I'll be wrong and look like an idiot, but I don't think so), but I am pretty sure that it is in the doing damage section of that book. In RQ2, the spell description of Protection specifically states that it does not protect vs. criticals. Shield is described as giving two points of Protection. Amd while I was at it, I checked up about Fireblade and Truesword. It says that Fireblade 'replaces the normal damage' and Truesword 'doubles the normal damage'. I take this to mean that Fireblade makes Truesword useless, but I guess you could interpret it differently. >I my campaign, criticals do not ignore magical spells, >which form a complete if invisible barrier around the caster, and thus have >no "weak points". > In your campaign you can do whatever you want. However, may I urge you to look at this issue not from the point of view of (very subjective) reasoning about how magic might work and its possible abscence of 'weak points' etc., and think about game balance? If magic does not protect against criticals, everyone (well, except heroes and iron mostali) needs to worry about attacks from any opponent. I think this is an excellent feature of RQ. >> The sole exceptions that I know of are - >>a) the Mostali spell Stabilise Armour (?) is specially designed to make >>armour protect against criticals. >The mostali spell allows a material armor, which normally is ignored by a >critical, to become insensitive to criticals, possibly by magically >"sealing" the weak spots. It does not appear to have any physical effect on the armour in the spell description - I would think it is simply an enchantment which causes it to always perform its job perfectly, which means getting in the way of incoming weapons. >Note that a normally enchanted armor does still >have joints or articulations where a blade can find a non-protected spot. > Actually, most Gloranthan armour being a far cry from full Gothic plate, it generally has great gaping holes in it. Greaves protect on side of the arm only, helmets are open faced in general, and 'joints' are usually gaps. The difference between such armour and articulated plate is averaged out to a higher AP value in part, and largely ignored. >>b) in RQ:AIG, Damage Resistance worked against criticals. However, as most >>criticals are always specials and thus do lots of damage, the chances are >>that criticals would blow through Damage Resistance unhindered anyway. >True for most other spells: I do not have in my campaign any Runelord with >shield 27 ;-) and so since most protections are around 4-6, they are of >little help against a "maximum possible damages plus rolled strenght bonus". No. You misunderstand - unhindered means exactly that. A Shield 4 would still stop 8 points of AP by your rules - a Damage Resistance that fails stops nothing at all. Think about this from game balance. If Shield worked against criticals, then someone with Shield 4 can afford to ignore any attack that does less than 8 points completely. But even if someone has a good suit of armour and a Damage Resist 10 (a very good combination in RQ:AIG, though difficult to get), they still need to worry about criticals from someone with an 8 point attack - its got a 40% chance of sailing straight through, doing 8 points of damage, and taking out a location. And as for it not being an issue in your game - its much better to make the situation clear before it becomes an issue than at a later point when people have invested POW in the spells and rely on the way they work. > >> Actually, I suspect the Dragonnewt magic of Draconic Armour also >>protects against criticals, but as all it does is transfer damage from HPs >>to MPs, its of limited use. Its also virtually unavailable to PCs, of >>course. >Here we go, another bunch of incredible NPCs "a la Dorastor" ;-) I mention it only because I intend to introduce my PCs to some Dragon Magic quite soon, when they plunder an EWF tomb (one of the players has an unusual magic item which will help them decipher things). It will indeed give them some nifty powers, and also subtly degrade their personality until they become useless drones, if overused. And also attract much unwelcome attention. I like to throw this sort of temptation at my players. Cheers David ------------------------------ End of RQ Rules Digest: V3 #63 ****************************** This is the bottom of the RuneQuest Rules Digest. RuneQuest is a trademark of Avalon Hill, and Glorantha is a trademark of Chaosium. 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